4 ms·

> address Do not tell Microsoft where you sleep. IANAL but they are not a government or financial institution and do not have a right to that information. Mak

by qurren 2mo ago

> address Do not tell Microsoft where you sleep. IANAL but they are not a government or financial institution and do not have a right to that information. Make sure you register mailing addresses with your credit card institutions in addition to your residential addresses, and make your mailing address your billing address so that you aren't forced to tell a thousand businesses like Microsoft where you sleep.

BitwiseFool 2mo ago
Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. Once that's established, all it takes is for an unaware user to fill out an e-commerce form and save an address for auto-fill.
- clear0250 2mo ago
  > Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. It takes zero effort to bypass that with Rufus, if you set up your own pc.
  - BitwiseFool 2mo ago
    My comment was in regard to the average PC user. The kinds of folks who would never install an operating system and would likely agree to use Edge while signed in to their Microsoft account.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 2mo ago
      Microsoft has also been pushing hard for Recall and recording all local activity forever. Not impossible to imagine that anything looking like a home address “somehow” gets ingested in the telemetry.
  - AngryData 2mo ago
    A bypass existing is good, needing a bypass in the first place is still a problem.
    - account42 2mo ago
      A bypass existing is actually not good because that's how the frog is boiled. Ignorant users get an account while power user are placated for now. Then at some point the bypass is removed and when power users speak up they will be told shut down by all the drones with "you have needed an account for years, why are you throwing a fuss now".
- jborean93 2mo ago
  > Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. While it's definitely a dark pattern that I 100% do not agree with, Pro editions still allow you to do a local account. No need for the oobe /bypass command, still can be done through the OOBE GUI setup by selecting a Work/School account option then selecting Sign in options to then specify a local account to create.
cuu508 2mo ago
> Make sure you register mailing addresses with your credit card institutions Sorry for a dumb question but what would one use as a mailing address? Rent a PO box, or use a mail forwarding service, something like that?
- qurren 2mo ago
  Any of a number of virtual mailbox services which can receive mail for you, e.g. anytimemailbox.com but there are several. You can either pick up in person, or they offer services like mail forwarding, opening and scanning, etc. Besides privacy against leaking your sleeping-address to businesses, they're also convenient for avoiding package theft if that's a problem in your area, and receiving/forwarding mail if you travel a lot for extended periods of time. I'd recommend against PO boxes because (1) they get rejected by some services (2) UPS and FedEx won't deliver to them. Because these businesses have to register as CMRAs and you have to sign a notarized form for them to legally receive mail for you, some services will still detect it and not let you use the address, but my experience for the most part has been that most US financial institutions let you enter a "residential/legal address" (no CMRAs allowed) and a "mailing address" (CMRAs allowed) separately, and the mailing address usually becomes your billing address.
  - nekusar 2mo ago
    Or.....Install Linux and bypass all this stupidity. They will move faster to track each and every one of you, all the while shoving ads and garbage down each of your respective machines... and you all pay for it?!
    - nemomarx 2mo ago
      You still want the virtual mailing address for other reasons honestly. Even if your os isn't tracking you or leaking things giving your real address to any business could lead to it being leaked because no one cares about security, etc. If that's in your threat model you should be using a good proxy mailer
rexpop 2mo ago
This is broadly impractical for the average citizen. A scalable solution would be to make this sort of thing illegal.
- qurren 2mo ago
  > This is broadly impractical for the average citizen. No it's not. Sign up for a virtual mailbox for $15-$25/month. > A scalable solution would be to make this sort of thing illegal. I'm posting this in the genuine interest of people being able to maintain anonymity from data leaks, privacy leaks, and in general not needing to tell businesses more personal information than is necessary to render services. This is in a country that has no protection of personal safety whatsoever, and any business data leak could mean life or death to average citizens who are being threatened by criminals, stalkers, and more. It seems every time I post something of this flavor the same handful of you come out of the woods and want to make privacy illegal, and I'm not sure who you are trying to support.
  - nemomarx 2mo ago
    I think they meant make what Microsoft is doing illegal? or make it illegal to ask for address, etc. definitely a little more effective than mailboxes
    - qurren 2mo ago
      Ahhh okay if that's what they meant, then yes, I 100% agree and apologize in advance. I fully agree that businesses should not be asking for addresses. Non-financial businesses don't need to KYC in the first place, and financial institutions can KYC without needing to know where you sleep. I got triggered because people seem to always want to come out of the woods and say "addresses should be public record" or things of that sort and I vehemently disagree in the interest of privacy, in a country where a stalker can just look you up, terrorize you, and the police will do nothing about it.
      - rexpop 2mo ago
mschuster91 2mo ago
> IANAL but they are not a government or financial institution and do not have a right to that information. As soon as you purchase something from Microsoft - e.g. your Office 365 subscription - they have at the very least your billing address on file for the credit card.
- sellmesoap 2mo ago
  Seems to me that it's a challenge to make an apple account without adding a credit card to your account as well. A carfully chosen Linux distro (so many options!) is the way to avoid the brunt of these privacy issues, lots of open software calls home in some way or another so user beware!
- drdexebtjl 2mo ago
  We gotta stop normalizing that. Why do you need my address to receive my money? My birth date? Even in places with strong privacy regulations requiring businesses not to collect data they don’t need, businesses apparently get away with asking this.
  - mschuster91 2mo ago
    The problem is CC processors. You can get away as a merchant with just a number and expiration date, that's the minimum you need to process a CC payment, but you pay exorbitantly higher fees. The more details you collect and pass on, the lower your processor's risk fee will be because the more info, the more likely it is that the customer is actually the cardholder and not using fraudulently obtained data. And as soon as you connect with telephony systems (e.g. VoIP numbers) or rent out servers, some countries' telecom KYC laws apply that also force MS to collect validated address data.
    - account42 2mo ago
      Even without the CC processor requirements they would want to be able to identify you in case of a payment dispute. Digital payments are more like an IOU than like cash.
    - 2mo ago

by qurren 2mo ago

BitwiseFool 2mo ago

Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. Once that's established, all it takes is for an unaware user to fill out an e-commerce form and save an address for auto-fill.

clear0250 2mo ago
> Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. It takes zero effort to bypass that with Rufus, if you set up your own pc.
- BitwiseFool 2mo ago
  My comment was in regard to the average PC user. The kinds of folks who would never install an operating system and would likely agree to use Edge while signed in to their Microsoft account.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2mo ago
    Microsoft has also been pushing hard for Recall and recording all local activity forever. Not impossible to imagine that anything looking like a home address “somehow” gets ingested in the telemetry.
- AngryData 2mo ago
  A bypass existing is good, needing a bypass in the first place is still a problem.
  - account42 2mo ago
    A bypass existing is actually not good because that's how the frog is boiled. Ignorant users get an account while power user are placated for now. Then at some point the bypass is removed and when power users speak up they will be told shut down by all the drones with "you have needed an account for years, why are you throwing a fuss now".
jborean93 2mo ago
> Windows 11 effectively forces users to register with a Microsoft account. While it's definitely a dark pattern that I 100% do not agree with, Pro editions still allow you to do a local account. No need for the oobe /bypass command, still can be done through the OOBE GUI setup by selecting a Work/School account option then selecting Sign in options to then specify a local account to create.

cuu508 2mo ago

> Make sure you register mailing addresses with your credit card institutions Sorry for a dumb question but what would one use as a mailing address? Rent a PO box, or use a mail forwarding service, something like that?

qurren 2mo ago
Any of a number of virtual mailbox services which can receive mail for you, e.g. anytimemailbox.com but there are several. You can either pick up in person, or they offer services like mail forwarding, opening and scanning, etc. Besides privacy against leaking your sleeping-address to businesses, they're also convenient for avoiding package theft if that's a problem in your area, and receiving/forwarding mail if you travel a lot for extended periods of time. I'd recommend against PO boxes because (1) they get rejected by some services (2) UPS and FedEx won't deliver to them. Because these businesses have to register as CMRAs and you have to sign a notarized form for them to legally receive mail for you, some services will still detect it and not let you use the address, but my experience for the most part has been that most US financial institutions let you enter a "residential/legal address" (no CMRAs allowed) and a "mailing address" (CMRAs allowed) separately, and the mailing address usually becomes your billing address.
- nekusar 2mo ago
  Or.....Install Linux and bypass all this stupidity. They will move faster to track each and every one of you, all the while shoving ads and garbage down each of your respective machines... and you all pay for it?!
  - nemomarx 2mo ago
    You still want the virtual mailing address for other reasons honestly. Even if your os isn't tracking you or leaking things giving your real address to any business could lead to it being leaked because no one cares about security, etc. If that's in your threat model you should be using a good proxy mailer

rexpop 2mo ago

This is broadly impractical for the average citizen. A scalable solution would be to make this sort of thing illegal.

qurren 2mo ago
> This is broadly impractical for the average citizen. No it's not. Sign up for a virtual mailbox for $15-$25/month. > A scalable solution would be to make this sort of thing illegal. I'm posting this in the genuine interest of people being able to maintain anonymity from data leaks, privacy leaks, and in general not needing to tell businesses more personal information than is necessary to render services. This is in a country that has no protection of personal safety whatsoever, and any business data leak could mean life or death to average citizens who are being threatened by criminals, stalkers, and more. It seems every time I post something of this flavor the same handful of you come out of the woods and want to make privacy illegal, and I'm not sure who you are trying to support.
- nemomarx 2mo ago
  I think they meant make what Microsoft is doing illegal? or make it illegal to ask for address, etc. definitely a little more effective than mailboxes
  - qurren 2mo ago
    Ahhh okay if that's what they meant, then yes, I 100% agree and apologize in advance. I fully agree that businesses should not be asking for addresses. Non-financial businesses don't need to KYC in the first place, and financial institutions can KYC without needing to know where you sleep. I got triggered because people seem to always want to come out of the woods and say "addresses should be public record" or things of that sort and I vehemently disagree in the interest of privacy, in a country where a stalker can just look you up, terrorize you, and the police will do nothing about it.
    - rexpop 2mo ago

mschuster91 2mo ago

> IANAL but they are not a government or financial institution and do not have a right to that information. As soon as you purchase something from Microsoft - e.g. your Office 365 subscription - they have at the very least your billing address on file for the credit card.

sellmesoap 2mo ago
Seems to me that it's a challenge to make an apple account without adding a credit card to your account as well. A carfully chosen Linux distro (so many options!) is the way to avoid the brunt of these privacy issues, lots of open software calls home in some way or another so user beware!
drdexebtjl 2mo ago
We gotta stop normalizing that. Why do you need my address to receive my money? My birth date? Even in places with strong privacy regulations requiring businesses not to collect data they don’t need, businesses apparently get away with asking this.
- mschuster91 2mo ago
  The problem is CC processors. You can get away as a merchant with just a number and expiration date, that's the minimum you need to process a CC payment, but you pay exorbitantly higher fees. The more details you collect and pass on, the lower your processor's risk fee will be because the more info, the more likely it is that the customer is actually the cardholder and not using fraudulently obtained data. And as soon as you connect with telephony systems (e.g. VoIP numbers) or rent out servers, some countries' telecom KYC laws apply that also force MS to collect validated address data.
  - account42 2mo ago
    Even without the CC processor requirements they would want to be able to identify you in case of a payment dispute. Digital payments are more like an IOU than like cash.
  - 2mo ago