3 ms·

Yes, yes really. No I don't believe there's some color filter south of the border - that's your baggage/perception of Mexico/Central America. > Do you think Me

by ericmay 2mo ago

Yes, yes really. No I don't believe there's some color filter south of the border - that's your baggage/perception of Mexico/Central America. > Do you think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the central American countries? Did you mean How do I think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the Central American countries? If so I'd say it's nuanced and many people in those countries have their own views and their own various problems to solve, just like folks in France have a different view on immigration than, say, Switzerland, or how Germany and France can't agree on a fighter jet project and are looking at different industrial policies, or how Spain has a lot less interest in Ukraine than Latvia does. Of course South America is incredibly culturally diverse, but I think it's a lot more homogenous than Europe is not just in terms of policy but culturally too. But hey if you disagree, sure make your case if you'd like. I'm just discussing the topic based on my own perceptions. The EU has something like 27 official languages and an Americas block would likely have 3 or so - that itself is the kind of thing that makes integration a lot easier.

carefulfungi 2mo ago
It's amusing to see a European cite the linguistic result of European colonialism (assuming your three languages are Spanish, English, French - or maybe Portuguese) - and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages - as an argument for the cultural homogeneity of North and South America that they are unwilling to apply to their own continent.
- ericmay 2mo ago
  I'm not European (not that this matters anyway) - and the three languages I mentioned were Spanish, English, and Portuguese just because those are the primary languages spoken across the hemisphere. In Europe a lot of people speak English as a second language but by and large many member states speak predominantly more languages - Spanish in Spain, Portuguese in Portugal, French in France, Italian in Italy (there's 4 different major language groups right there) and when you add in economy size, prominence on the global stage, geopolitical interests, history, and more it seems to me, in my opinion of course, it's a bit more difficult to wrangle, say, Germany and France together who have collectively killed millions of each others citizens versus, idk, Mexico and Colombia who are certainly distinct and have their own rich national and regional cultures (just like the United States even) but speak the same language and, in my view, get a long a little bit better. I'm not arguing that there isn't a vibrancy in culture or that these countries are entirely homogenous. I'm arguing it would be easier to wrangle them together in a bloc of sorts than it was to get (and keep) the EU together. For what it's worth a lot of cultural differences are becoming increasingly (unfortunately) minor differences at best because of globalization and the Internet and other communication technologies. > and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages Eh thousands of languages were destroyed by war and destitute and colonialization of various sorts throughout history. I'm not going to put a random assortment of them on a pedestal to get angry about just because they happened to be more recent (400 years ago). But anyway isn't China currently destroying spoken languages in places like Tibet and Xinjiang?
  - carefulfungi 2mo ago
    Sorry for assuming you were European in expressing what I see as ironic. Perhaps itself ironic as a mistake. My bad. I think Europe and the Americas are differently heterogeneous and differently homogeneous. Certainly the Europeans have made more practical strides in building a coalition across their members than, say, South America or Central America. The reality is that Europe demonstrates a higher degree of solidarity between states than these other places. So it's strange to me to argue the opposite. But if I understand, your assertion is that the Mayans, the islanders of the Caribbean, the people of Peru, or the Amazonians are less culturally different from one another than the citizens of, say, Greece and Norway? I'm not sure I buy it personally .. but I can see your argument.
    - ericmay 2mo ago
      Well, that solidarity I think you are taking for granted and of course a lot of the disagreements don’t quite make global news unlike any time Trump eats a booger someone in the international media is blowing up over it. But the EU was a very large and intentional project born out of the incredibly devastating conflicts of World War I and World War II. For most of history Europeans were violently feuding with each other. My point originally was that the current state of the EU is a remarkable achievement precisely because of the animosity, history, and very broad cultural differences between European nations. I wouldn’t say my assertion is that the peoples you mention are less culturally different (I’m not sure and not sure how we measure that) my assertion is if you were to attempt to form a bloc that those cultural differences are very small relative to the whole. Just like how in the US we have cultural influence from the tribal people that lived here but by and large it’s a small cultural aspect and not the predominant one. I’m not minimizing their importance, significance, or heritage. I’m just saying if you had to go and take people who live in these countries they would be easier to organize as a whole into something of a bloc because at the nation state level they are more, of course it’s just my opinion, homogeneous in interests than when the EU was being put together. I’m interested in hearing what you think here as well. I’m just chit-chatting - sorry if I sound argumentative. I’m working on not sound like that as much.
  - lazyasciiart 2mo ago

by ericmay 2mo ago

carefulfungi 2mo ago

It's amusing to see a European cite the linguistic result of European colonialism (assuming your three languages are Spanish, English, French - or maybe Portuguese) - and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages - as an argument for the cultural homogeneity of North and South America that they are unwilling to apply to their own continent.

ericmay 2mo ago
I'm not European (not that this matters anyway) - and the three languages I mentioned were Spanish, English, and Portuguese just because those are the primary languages spoken across the hemisphere. In Europe a lot of people speak English as a second language but by and large many member states speak predominantly more languages - Spanish in Spain, Portuguese in Portugal, French in France, Italian in Italy (there's 4 different major language groups right there) and when you add in economy size, prominence on the global stage, geopolitical interests, history, and more it seems to me, in my opinion of course, it's a bit more difficult to wrangle, say, Germany and France together who have collectively killed millions of each others citizens versus, idk, Mexico and Colombia who are certainly distinct and have their own rich national and regional cultures (just like the United States even) but speak the same language and, in my view, get a long a little bit better. I'm not arguing that there isn't a vibrancy in culture or that these countries are entirely homogenous. I'm arguing it would be easier to wrangle them together in a bloc of sorts than it was to get (and keep) the EU together. For what it's worth a lot of cultural differences are becoming increasingly (unfortunately) minor differences at best because of globalization and the Internet and other communication technologies. > and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages Eh thousands of languages were destroyed by war and destitute and colonialization of various sorts throughout history. I'm not going to put a random assortment of them on a pedestal to get angry about just because they happened to be more recent (400 years ago). But anyway isn't China currently destroying spoken languages in places like Tibet and Xinjiang?
- carefulfungi 2mo ago
  Sorry for assuming you were European in expressing what I see as ironic. Perhaps itself ironic as a mistake. My bad. I think Europe and the Americas are differently heterogeneous and differently homogeneous. Certainly the Europeans have made more practical strides in building a coalition across their members than, say, South America or Central America. The reality is that Europe demonstrates a higher degree of solidarity between states than these other places. So it's strange to me to argue the opposite. But if I understand, your assertion is that the Mayans, the islanders of the Caribbean, the people of Peru, or the Amazonians are less culturally different from one another than the citizens of, say, Greece and Norway? I'm not sure I buy it personally .. but I can see your argument.
  - ericmay 2mo ago
    Well, that solidarity I think you are taking for granted and of course a lot of the disagreements don’t quite make global news unlike any time Trump eats a booger someone in the international media is blowing up over it. But the EU was a very large and intentional project born out of the incredibly devastating conflicts of World War I and World War II. For most of history Europeans were violently feuding with each other. My point originally was that the current state of the EU is a remarkable achievement precisely because of the animosity, history, and very broad cultural differences between European nations. I wouldn’t say my assertion is that the peoples you mention are less culturally different (I’m not sure and not sure how we measure that) my assertion is if you were to attempt to form a bloc that those cultural differences are very small relative to the whole. Just like how in the US we have cultural influence from the tribal people that lived here but by and large it’s a small cultural aspect and not the predominant one. I’m not minimizing their importance, significance, or heritage. I’m just saying if you had to go and take people who live in these countries they would be easier to organize as a whole into something of a bloc because at the nation state level they are more, of course it’s just my opinion, homogeneous in interests than when the EU was being put together. I’m interested in hearing what you think here as well. I’m just chit-chatting - sorry if I sound argumentative. I’m working on not sound like that as much.
- lazyasciiart 2mo ago