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Sad to see it go having been a maintainer some years ago. For anyone wondering, there are more sustainable (with a viable, focused business backing the project
by devttyeu 1mo ago
Sad to see it go having been a maintainer some years ago.
For anyone wondering, there are more sustainable (with a viable, focused business backing the project) options to do p2p, namely Iroh - https://www.iroh.computer/ https://www.iroh.computer/ which was built by ex-IPFS ex-Protocol Labs devs (I have no relation to the team beyond having worked with them back in the day).
Sadly Protocol Labs is doing.. ehh whatever now, except apparently supporting the projects it got its VC/crypto funding from.
- CommanderData 1mo agoI love Iroh but it doesn't quite work the same as IPFS if I understand correctly.
- knowaveragejoe 1mo agoIt doesn't, it's a lower level primitive. But things like IPFS can be built on top of it.
- 2color 1mo agoThe way I would put is as: Iroh + iroh-blobs == libp2p + UnixFS + Bitswap, and the latter three are some of the critical components that have defined most IPFS implementations.
- rklaehn 1mo agoIf you want to compare iroh with something out of the IPFS world, iroh is basically "what if you build libp2p on multipath QUIC". If you want full ipfs functionality, we have a number of protocols you can combine: blobs https://github.com/n0-computer/iroh-blobs https://github.com/n0-computer/iroh-blobs and gossip https://github.com/n0-computer/iroh-gossip https://github.com/n0-computer/iroh-gossip . There is one thing we do not have yet - global content discovery. The reason for this is that so far we have not found a way to do it in a way that just works. It is a very hard problem, but I hope we can come up with a solution so we can cover the use cases that initially got me excited about IPFS many years ago.
- CommanderData 1mo agoGlobal content discovery really is the missing piece that meshes IPFS together.
- dgellow 1mo agoWhat is PL doing nowadays? I checked the website and don’t understand at all
- devttyeu 1mo ago"The next big thing" usually
- explorigin 1mo agoThis. Haven't seen this in the news in years. A few years ago (2022?), they got some $x00 million in investment money. They already had IPFS/IPNS at that point so it was some deep push into Filecoin. But it felt odd at the time. Bitcoin was starting to jump the shark at that point and none of the smarter cryptos had truly found a market fit either.
- networksrus 1mo ago[flagged]
- bastawhiz 1mo agoIt's buzzword soup. All their projects lead to domains with vague descriptions and pictures of the team and zero substance at all.
- sunshine-o 1mo agoA few years ago they got into the AI bandwagon and stoped funding the P2P/Web3 stuff from what I remember.
- Barbing 1mo agoThanks, feel less dumb than when I tried to figure out what it was all about a few months ago.
- jadbox 1mo agowho uses Iroh?
- smalltorch 1mo agoisn't it brand new?
- ycombinatrix 1mo agodevelopers, not end users
- 2color 1mo agoWe're using in Radicle for artifact distribution: https://radicle.network/nodes/iris.radicle.network/rad%3Az4VYyJ9KuwMNkXGQnmKuGPGKw3inv https://radicle.network/nodes/iris.radicle.network/rad%3Az4V... And also working to replace the Radicle's networking stack with Iroh: https://radicle.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/369274-General/topic/Towards.20Radicle.202.2E0.2E0/with/612163493 https://radicle.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/369274-General...
- stavros 1mo agoI really wish Moonlight would use Iroh. I use Tailscale to make it work, but it would be so much easier to just pair a machine and have it always work.
- 8cvor6j844qw_d6 1mo agoI've seen some product prototypes using Iroh and it appears pretty good for "just get edge device / node connectivity to work" when you don't want end users to bother with networking shenanigans but can guarantee Internet connectivity. Basically Tailscale but embedded into the app without the hassle of requiring users to setup accounts.
- tonyhb 1mo agoIroh seems more comparable to an L7 scoped Tailscale than it does IPFS. It's good, but pretty unrelated.
- devttyeu 1mo agoIroh got started with IPFS-style content-addressed blob transfers as the primary way to use it, still has that functionality but its now a bit of a second tier citizen. See https://docs.iroh.computer/protocols/blobs https://docs.iroh.computer/protocols/blobs Besides just p2p streams seem to be much more useful, those are plug-and-play into most software, e.g. I wrote https://github.com/magik6k/git-remote-iroh https://github.com/magik6k/git-remote-iroh that just plugs the git remote proto into iroh and lets you move repo commits between computers by just copying a string from one place to another on push. Doing that with blobs - not gonna happen, not that easily.
- rklaehn 1mo agoMain author of iroh-blobs here. We realised that there are many more use cases for p2p streams than for blobs, so in the last year we have focused on getting iroh to 1.0, which involved implementing our own multipath QUIC implementation based on quinn. This was a lot of work and took the full focus of the team. That being said, we plan to continue to work on blobs and get it to 1.0, which will involve some API changes and some internal changes, primarily to the blob store. The blobs network protocol itself is just BLAKE3 verified streaming with a few tiny modifications (chunk groups) for efficiency, and hasn't changed since 2 years. Not because we don't have time for it but because it is done. My personal goal is to have blobs working so well that you can forget about it, and also provide a solution for global content discovery.
- xbumblefudgex 1mo agofinally some good news!
- tancop 1mo agoAll the protocol needs at this point is a DHT and a standard representation for directories. Everything else like data storage layouts and node trust systems can be handled client side.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- doctorpangloss 1mo agothere are a lot of completely free file sharing services for authentic activity (e.g. github, google drive) inauthentic activity seems to move from one product space to another. in 3 years we'll be hearing about stripe shutting down openrouter for example.
- virgil_disgr4ce 1mo agoplease define "authentic activity" and "inauthentic activity"
- bitwize 1mo agoLegitimate. Legal. IPFS, Freenet, and experiments like that mainly serve as a place for people to store and distribute pirated copyrighted material, child porn, hit lists, terrorism manifestos and plans, and the like. Scratch a libertarian and, nine times out of ten, you'll find someone who advocates for no or minimal government because they want to do something the government legitimately bars them from doing. Scratch a libertarian decentralized P2P E2EE communication project and you'll find... well, this kind of material nearly every time.
- SXX 1mo agoYour local computer hard drive can also be used to store all of the above. Are you also okay to make it scannable by anyone? Worse you can store child porn as paper pictures in your house and can privately communicate in there with other unknown people and mignt even be do something illegal there. Do you want to install some police security camera in your toilet? Oh, and in some countries being LGBTQ+ person or political activist or women right activist is illegal and will land you to execution on chop chop square. Should we also let all the governments find these people too?
- chriswarbo 1mo ago> IPFS, Freenet, and experiments like that > a libertarian decentralized P2P E2EE communication project Your argument makes sense for Freenet (though I'd personally defend that project too); but not so much for IPFS. Firstly, IPFS doesn't have any encryption (E2E or otherwise). Also, Freenet spreads data around the network (for robustness and plausible-deniability), so the peers providing a file are not the peers which inserted it. IPFS does no such thing: if you want your content to remain available, you'd better be running an IPFS node that provides it. Either way, it feels like a pretty bad idea to host dodgy stuff on IPFS. IPFS is much closer to HTTP. The difference is that content is immutable, and can be re-hosted by anyone that happens to have a copy (e.g. no need for mirrors, etc.). (Note that HTTP was invented to disseminate physics research; not CSAM)
- erlend_sh 1mo agoPerhaps the best thing to have come out of IPFS is DASL, used in AT protocol: https://dasl.ing/ https://dasl.ing/
- momack2 1mo agoLove DASL (funded by IPFS too)! Iroh also meets the DASL spec (https://dasl.ing/bdasl.html https://dasl.ing/bdasl.html). A great bridging opportunity for agents to build interop between many different content addressed systems!
- ianopolous 1mo agoYep, and Peergos also chose the same subset as DASL.
- momack2 1mo agoIroh is great! As is ATProto! Both build on DASL (https://dasl.ing/bdasl.html https://dasl.ing/bdasl.html) - which specifies the core content addressing layer of IPFS. However - important clarification about the Shipyard post that I think a lot of folks are confused by: While its sad to see the Shipyard team sunset, the IPFS project is decentralized & robust to a single party moving on. IPFS the project/network is not sunsetting or shutting down! Current focus is lighter-weight stewardship from the IPFS Foundation via grants to individual maintainers, & development of decentralized public infra tools like the Service Worker Gateway.
- sadclown42 1mo agoYou are describing Protocol Labs' plans in the first person, as "current focus". If you work there, please say so in the comment. On a thread about Protocol Labs ending the maintainers' funding, that context matters to anyone weighing the reassurance. DASL specifies CIDs, CAR and deterministic CBOR. It deliberately does not specify UnixFS, and it has no way to chunk a file into blocks. UnixFS is what ipfs add has produced since 2015, and what Kubo, Boxo, Helia and the gateways address today. So DASL is the naming layer, not "the core content addressing layer of IPFS". Writing a new format is easy. The stability people built on came from not rewriting this one, and from someone shipping it in the software they already run. I run Kubo and Helia in production. "Robust to a single party moving on" would be easier to accept with answers to these: - Who triages vulnerability reports and ships fixes for Kubo, Boxo and Helia after September? Does the contact in https://github.com/ipfs/community/blob/master/SECURITY.md https://github.com/ipfs/community/blob/master/SECURITY.md still reach a person? - Will anyone cut releases, or should operators pin current versions and plan around that? Should we expect a community fork? - Who operates ipfs.io, dweb.link and delegated-ipfs.dev day to day after September, and with what experience running public infrastructure at that scale? - What happens to the Service Worker Gateway at https://inbrowser.link https://inbrowser.link ? - What happens to Badbits at https://badbits.dwebops.pub https://badbits.dwebops.pub ? Does it stop being updated when Shipyard turns the lights off? A grant to an individual maintainer is not the same as a named owner with commit rights and a release process. On the Service Worker Gateway as decentralized public infrastructure: the subdomain gateway spec requires a wildcard TLS certificate for the ipfs and ipns subdomains, plus a Public Suffix List entry so each CID gets its own origin. You also need a denylist, or you end up serving phishing. Very few people reading this thread can self-host that, and the ones who try will meet the abuse problem next. The same questions are open on discuss.ipfs.tech. A direct answer there would help more than reassurance here.
- cchance 1mo agoShipyards shtting down not IPFS, the title is editorialied
- tcoff91 1mo agoIroh looks so incredibly exciting, I can't wait to play with it.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- sadclown42 1mo ago[flagged]