4 ms·

> Imagine trying to create a single set of laws to apply to all of the countries in North and South America at the same time. I actually think it would be quit

by ericmay 2mo ago

> Imagine trying to create a single set of laws to apply to all of the countries in North and South America at the same time. I actually think it would be quite a bit easier than it is to create the EU. There's a lot more broad cultural homogeneity between the countries in the Americas than there is within Europe. Even on the topic of language you've got the vast majority of all peoples speaking some combination of Spanish, English, and Portuguese. And Latin America has a bit more limited geopolitical concerns than Europe does which makes managing some tensions easier than it might otherwise be. But I'm not sure why you are considering "it's hard to create the EU" to be a defense against complaints or criticism related to the EU itself. Maybe it's hard and it won't work and the criticism is reflecting that and others are pointing out that it's a flawed task to begin with for some number of reasons. For my own part I think it has been a fascinating topic and a remarkable accomplishment of statesmanship to even get the EU to this stage, albeit like anything there are some very valid drawbacks.

raverbashing 2mo ago
> There's a lot more broad cultural homogeneity between the countries in the Americas than there is within Europe No, not really. Unless you believe the Hollywood view that everything south of the US border has a Sepia filter Intra-Canada commerce is a PITA in itself Do you think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the central American countries? (Mexico being North America, yes I know)
- ericmay 2mo ago
  Yes, yes really. No I don't believe there's some color filter south of the border - that's your baggage/perception of Mexico/Central America. > Do you think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the central American countries? Did you mean How do I think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the Central American countries? If so I'd say it's nuanced and many people in those countries have their own views and their own various problems to solve, just like folks in France have a different view on immigration than, say, Switzerland, or how Germany and France can't agree on a fighter jet project and are looking at different industrial policies, or how Spain has a lot less interest in Ukraine than Latvia does. Of course South America is incredibly culturally diverse, but I think it's a lot more homogenous than Europe is not just in terms of policy but culturally too. But hey if you disagree, sure make your case if you'd like. I'm just discussing the topic based on my own perceptions. The EU has something like 27 official languages and an Americas block would likely have 3 or so - that itself is the kind of thing that makes integration a lot easier.
  - carefulfungi 2mo ago
    It's amusing to see a European cite the linguistic result of European colonialism (assuming your three languages are Spanish, English, French - or maybe Portuguese) - and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages - as an argument for the cultural homogeneity of North and South America that they are unwilling to apply to their own continent.
    - ericmay 2mo ago
      I'm not European (not that this matters anyway) - and the three languages I mentioned were Spanish, English, and Portuguese just because those are the primary languages spoken across the hemisphere. In Europe a lot of people speak English as a second language but by and large many member states speak predominantly more languages - Spanish in Spain, Portuguese in Portugal, French in France, Italian in Italy (there's 4 different major language groups right there) and when you add in economy size, prominence on the global stage, geopolitical interests, history, and more it seems to me, in my opinion of course, it's a bit more difficult to wrangle, say, Germany and France together who have collectively killed millions of each others citizens versus, idk, Mexico and Colombia who are certainly distinct and have their own rich national and regional cultures (just like the United States even) but speak the same language and, in my view, get a long a little bit better. I'm not arguing that there isn't a vibrancy in culture or that these countries are entirely homogenous. I'm arguing it would be easier to wrangle them together in a bloc of sorts than it was to get (and keep) the EU together. For what it's worth a lot of cultural differences are becoming increasingly (unfortunately) minor differences at best because of globalization and the Internet and other communication technologies. > and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages Eh thousands of languages were destroyed by war and destitute and colonialization of various sorts throughout history. I'm not going to put a random assortment of them on a pedestal to get angry about just because they happened to be more recent (400 years ago). But anyway isn't China currently destroying spoken languages in places like Tibet and Xinjiang?
      - carefulfungi 2mo ago
        Sorry for assuming you were European in expressing what I see as ironic. Perhaps itself ironic as a mistake. My bad. I think Europe and the Americas are differently heterogeneous and differently homogeneous. Certainly the Europeans have made more practical strides in building a coalition across their members than, say, South America or Central America. The reality is that Europe demonstrates a higher degree of solidarity between states than these other places. So it's strange to me to argue the opposite. But if I understand, your assertion is that the Mayans, the islanders of the Caribbean, the people of Peru, or the Amazonians are less culturally different from one another than the citizens of, say, Greece and Norway? I'm not sure I buy it personally .. but I can see your argument.
codethief 2mo ago
> There's a lot more broad cultural homogeneity between the countries in the Americas than there is within Europe. That must be the most preposterous thing I've read in while, no offense! :-) My personal experience has been the exact opposite: That cultural differences (and political differences no less!) in the Americas and also prejudices towards each other are huge, both between countries and often even between individual regions. (And that's even if you exclude the US for a second.) Also, countries in the Americas have had rather different histories (both pre and post Columbus) with only partial overlap. Meanwhile, European countries' history is practically impossible to disentangle, probably thanks in parts to how small the continent is in comparison to the Americas. On top of that, European culture has also had entire millenia to amalgamate and harmonize to the point where, yes, we may still speak different languages but it's very common for people to be able to trace back their ancestors' history across half the continent. It provides us all with the same cultural backdrop and the same roots as to where we come from, whereas in the case of the Americas I would ask: What is the common backdrop here? What are those common roots on a continent that combines both the incredibly rich history of hundreds of different indigenous peoples (all with their individual languages and customs) and the history of Europe, Africa and (in parts) Asia together? The partially shared experience of Spanish colonialism, and English, Spanish and Portuguese as shared languages only get you so far. Finally, if your claim is that Europe is culturally much more heterogeneous (which again I don't think it is), I'd argue we must have exported a lot of that to the Americas, too. :-)

by ericmay 2mo ago

raverbashing 2mo ago

> There's a lot more broad cultural homogeneity between the countries in the Americas than there is within Europe No, not really. Unless you believe the Hollywood view that everything south of the US border has a Sepia filter Intra-Canada commerce is a PITA in itself Do you think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the central American countries? (Mexico being North America, yes I know)

ericmay 2mo ago
Yes, yes really. No I don't believe there's some color filter south of the border - that's your baggage/perception of Mexico/Central America. > Do you think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the central American countries? Did you mean How do I think Mexico looks in the eyes of half the Central American countries? If so I'd say it's nuanced and many people in those countries have their own views and their own various problems to solve, just like folks in France have a different view on immigration than, say, Switzerland, or how Germany and France can't agree on a fighter jet project and are looking at different industrial policies, or how Spain has a lot less interest in Ukraine than Latvia does. Of course South America is incredibly culturally diverse, but I think it's a lot more homogenous than Europe is not just in terms of policy but culturally too. But hey if you disagree, sure make your case if you'd like. I'm just discussing the topic based on my own perceptions. The EU has something like 27 official languages and an Americas block would likely have 3 or so - that itself is the kind of thing that makes integration a lot easier.
- carefulfungi 2mo ago
  It's amusing to see a European cite the linguistic result of European colonialism (assuming your three languages are Spanish, English, French - or maybe Portuguese) - and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages - as an argument for the cultural homogeneity of North and South America that they are unwilling to apply to their own continent.
  - ericmay 2mo ago
    I'm not European (not that this matters anyway) - and the three languages I mentioned were Spanish, English, and Portuguese just because those are the primary languages spoken across the hemisphere. In Europe a lot of people speak English as a second language but by and large many member states speak predominantly more languages - Spanish in Spain, Portuguese in Portugal, French in France, Italian in Italy (there's 4 different major language groups right there) and when you add in economy size, prominence on the global stage, geopolitical interests, history, and more it seems to me, in my opinion of course, it's a bit more difficult to wrangle, say, Germany and France together who have collectively killed millions of each others citizens versus, idk, Mexico and Colombia who are certainly distinct and have their own rich national and regional cultures (just like the United States even) but speak the same language and, in my view, get a long a little bit better. I'm not arguing that there isn't a vibrancy in culture or that these countries are entirely homogenous. I'm arguing it would be easier to wrangle them together in a bloc of sorts than it was to get (and keep) the EU together. For what it's worth a lot of cultural differences are becoming increasingly (unfortunately) minor differences at best because of globalization and the Internet and other communication technologies. > and the destruction of thousands of spoken languages Eh thousands of languages were destroyed by war and destitute and colonialization of various sorts throughout history. I'm not going to put a random assortment of them on a pedestal to get angry about just because they happened to be more recent (400 years ago). But anyway isn't China currently destroying spoken languages in places like Tibet and Xinjiang?
    - carefulfungi 2mo ago
      Sorry for assuming you were European in expressing what I see as ironic. Perhaps itself ironic as a mistake. My bad. I think Europe and the Americas are differently heterogeneous and differently homogeneous. Certainly the Europeans have made more practical strides in building a coalition across their members than, say, South America or Central America. The reality is that Europe demonstrates a higher degree of solidarity between states than these other places. So it's strange to me to argue the opposite. But if I understand, your assertion is that the Mayans, the islanders of the Caribbean, the people of Peru, or the Amazonians are less culturally different from one another than the citizens of, say, Greece and Norway? I'm not sure I buy it personally .. but I can see your argument.

codethief 2mo ago

> There's a lot more broad cultural homogeneity between the countries in the Americas than there is within Europe. That must be the most preposterous thing I've read in while, no offense! :-) My personal experience has been the exact opposite: That cultural differences (and political differences no less!) in the Americas and also prejudices towards each other are huge, both between countries and often even between individual regions. (And that's even if you exclude the US for a second.) Also, countries in the Americas have had rather different histories (both pre and post Columbus) with only partial overlap. Meanwhile, European countries' history is practically impossible to disentangle, probably thanks in parts to how small the continent is in comparison to the Americas. On top of that, European culture has also had entire millenia to amalgamate and harmonize to the point where, yes, we may still speak different languages but it's very common for people to be able to trace back their ancestors' history across half the continent. It provides us all with the same cultural backdrop and the same roots as to where we come from, whereas in the case of the Americas I would ask: What is the common backdrop here? What are those common roots on a continent that combines both the incredibly rich history of hundreds of different indigenous peoples (all with their individual languages and customs) and the history of Europe, Africa and (in parts) Asia together? The partially shared experience of Spanish colonialism, and English, Spanish and Portuguese as shared languages only get you so far. Finally, if your claim is that Europe is culturally much more heterogeneous (which again I don't think it is), I'd argue we must have exported a lot of that to the Americas, too. :-)