4 ms·

Insomniac Games (the developers of Ratchet and Clank, and the Resistance series) wrote a blog post some time ago about their decision to focus on using a lower

Insomniac Games (the developers of Ratchet and Clank, and the Resistance series) wrote a blog post some time ago about their decision to focus on using a lower framerate (all their previous games were 60 fps). http://www.insomniacgames.com/how-much-does-framerate-matter/ http://www.insomniacgames.com/how-much-does-framerate-matter... The summary is that prettier games get better reviews and sell off more copies.

SyneRyder 14y ago
This is also interesting in light of the backlash against The Hobbit, where people are objecting to the 48fps film rate (most movies are 24fps): http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3780274/48-fps-how-we-accidentally-invented-impressionist-filmmaking http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3780274/48-fps-how-we-acc... and the recent Doing Game Gravity Right post on HN, which shows that some games are still using physics equations that don't properly account for sub 60fps framerates: http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~hkankaan/Homepages/gravity.html http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~hkankaan/Homepages/gravity.html
- mwilcox 14y ago
  There's a clear distinction between games and film here and that's the interactive element. Games react to player input and a lower framerate results in a pretty poor experience for players (especially in fast paced games like first person shooters). Add to this the fact that games have only recently been adding motion blur, a much higher framerate than film's rate of 24 is important for maintaining a fluid image. As someone who primarily plays first person shooters (TF2 and Quake Live), anything less than 60FPS looks awful to me, I play on a 120hz LCD.
lloeki 14y ago
Turn 10, of Forza Motorsport fame, refuses to compromise render rate in the series. Forza 2 to 4 (no idea for the 1st one, which ran on the original Xbox) are running at a steady 60fps (physics loops at 360ips), even in split screen (at the cost of a few effects, notably cockpit mirror reflections). Technically this really matters when getting the braking point at 400kph down Old Mulsanne. In terms of enjoyment, sure there's only reduced antialiasing, but driving down Bernese Alps close to the guard rail in Forza 4, especially with Kinect head tracking (not enough cash nor room for a triple-head+seat setup), is incredibly immersive. Forza Horizon though, developed by an all-star team[0] distinct from Turn 10, chose to drop to 30fps, notably for full AA, effects such as motion blur, and features like continuous day/night cycle and realistic car headlights (old bulbs look deliciously warm, and the chromatic effect on the crisp edge of xenon headlights is awesome). As realistic and gorgeous as Forza Horizon is, at speed it feels buttery smooth but not exactly crisp as Forza 4 is. It's like you'd take a low-resolution image and try to make it look nicer by using a blur filter, only this applies to time instead of space, and thus movement. [0]: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-forza-horizon http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-...
- viseztrance 14y ago
  Well a better example would be Ground Turismo 5 which runs in 1080p @ 60fps, but that's besides the point. Games that look good in screenshots will always sell better.
  - w0utert 14y ago
    GT5 is definitely not a better example, because it suffers huge framerate drops in some situations, which completely defeats the immersion effect. Try a race in cockpit view and multiple cars in front of you, when one goes off track creating some sand clouds, the framerate often dips far below 30 fps. What makes Forza 2 and 3 so impressive is that it keeps up 60 fps all the time. If you a game can't keep up with that, I'd much rather have a constant 30 fps than an erratic 60 fps.
- NickPollard 14y ago
  Disclaimer: I worked on Forza Horizon. I think the main issue with Horizon was actually the open world, even with some serious LoDing that proved render intensive. Also the motion blur as you mentioned. There's always trade-offs to be made, and the 360 isn't getting any faster. One thing I think perhaps more studios should try is running the main game loop at a different rate to the render loop. As you rightfully pointed out, the physics simulation runs at 360fps in Forza, similarly there's nothing to stop the game from double-buffering some of the game state and running the game at 60fps (including input). Part of the big issue of 30fps games (especially racing ones) is that the input lag becomes much bigger than in 60fps. You're normally looking at at least two frames of input lag - one to process the game, one to render it - so at least 66ms minimum for any button press to take effect. It normally tends to be about 100ms for 30fps games, and 50ms or so for 60fps, which makes the game feel a lot more responsive.
robmcm 14y ago
Perhaps the answer is to have two modes, one at 60FPS with graphical compromises and one at 30FPS without. That way the harder core can play at 60FPS and those more concerned about looks can play at 30. The only worry is they introduce a 1FPS mode just for screenshots ;)
- prawks 14y ago
  PC gamers view settings this way (and so I'd agree with you, I'd love it), but I don't see the rest of the console players agreeing. The idea behind a console is that it should be plug-and-play because all of the hardware is uniform. Though, they do offer customization of keymaps (errr. button-maps...), so perhaps there is a case for this?
  - robmcm 14y ago
    It could be an issue when you have online play, with those at 60FPS kicking ass. However if you default online to 60, the mags can take their screenshots from campaign ;)
greggman 14y ago
Except for how the #1 selling game of all time, MW3 is 60hz as are the other games in the series http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111353 http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111353

SyneRyder 14y ago

This is also interesting in light of the backlash against The Hobbit, where people are objecting to the 48fps film rate (most movies are 24fps): http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3780274/48-fps-how-we-accidentally-invented-impressionist-filmmaking http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3780274/48-fps-how-we-acc... and the recent Doing Game Gravity Right post on HN, which shows that some games are still using physics equations that don't properly account for sub 60fps framerates: http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~hkankaan/Homepages/gravity.html http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~hkankaan/Homepages/gravity.html

mwilcox 14y ago
There's a clear distinction between games and film here and that's the interactive element. Games react to player input and a lower framerate results in a pretty poor experience for players (especially in fast paced games like first person shooters). Add to this the fact that games have only recently been adding motion blur, a much higher framerate than film's rate of 24 is important for maintaining a fluid image. As someone who primarily plays first person shooters (TF2 and Quake Live), anything less than 60FPS looks awful to me, I play on a 120hz LCD.

lloeki 14y ago

Turn 10, of Forza Motorsport fame, refuses to compromise render rate in the series. Forza 2 to 4 (no idea for the 1st one, which ran on the original Xbox) are running at a steady 60fps (physics loops at 360ips), even in split screen (at the cost of a few effects, notably cockpit mirror reflections). Technically this really matters when getting the braking point at 400kph down Old Mulsanne. In terms of enjoyment, sure there's only reduced antialiasing, but driving down Bernese Alps close to the guard rail in Forza 4, especially with Kinect head tracking (not enough cash nor room for a triple-head+seat setup), is incredibly immersive. Forza Horizon though, developed by an all-star team[0] distinct from Turn 10, chose to drop to 30fps, notably for full AA, effects such as motion blur, and features like continuous day/night cycle and realistic car headlights (old bulbs look deliciously warm, and the chromatic effect on the crisp edge of xenon headlights is awesome). As realistic and gorgeous as Forza Horizon is, at speed it feels buttery smooth but not exactly crisp as Forza 4 is. It's like you'd take a low-resolution image and try to make it look nicer by using a blur filter, only this applies to time instead of space, and thus movement. [0]: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-forza-horizon http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-...

viseztrance 14y ago
Well a better example would be Ground Turismo 5 which runs in 1080p @ 60fps, but that's besides the point. Games that look good in screenshots will always sell better.
- w0utert 14y ago
  GT5 is definitely not a better example, because it suffers huge framerate drops in some situations, which completely defeats the immersion effect. Try a race in cockpit view and multiple cars in front of you, when one goes off track creating some sand clouds, the framerate often dips far below 30 fps. What makes Forza 2 and 3 so impressive is that it keeps up 60 fps all the time. If you a game can't keep up with that, I'd much rather have a constant 30 fps than an erratic 60 fps.
NickPollard 14y ago
Disclaimer: I worked on Forza Horizon. I think the main issue with Horizon was actually the open world, even with some serious LoDing that proved render intensive. Also the motion blur as you mentioned. There's always trade-offs to be made, and the 360 isn't getting any faster. One thing I think perhaps more studios should try is running the main game loop at a different rate to the render loop. As you rightfully pointed out, the physics simulation runs at 360fps in Forza, similarly there's nothing to stop the game from double-buffering some of the game state and running the game at 60fps (including input). Part of the big issue of 30fps games (especially racing ones) is that the input lag becomes much bigger than in 60fps. You're normally looking at at least two frames of input lag - one to process the game, one to render it - so at least 66ms minimum for any button press to take effect. It normally tends to be about 100ms for 30fps games, and 50ms or so for 60fps, which makes the game feel a lot more responsive.

robmcm 14y ago

Perhaps the answer is to have two modes, one at 60FPS with graphical compromises and one at 30FPS without. That way the harder core can play at 60FPS and those more concerned about looks can play at 30. The only worry is they introduce a 1FPS mode just for screenshots ;)

prawks 14y ago
PC gamers view settings this way (and so I'd agree with you, I'd love it), but I don't see the rest of the console players agreeing. The idea behind a console is that it should be plug-and-play because all of the hardware is uniform. Though, they do offer customization of keymaps (errr. button-maps...), so perhaps there is a case for this?
- robmcm 14y ago
  It could be an issue when you have online play, with those at 60FPS kicking ass. However if you default online to 60, the mags can take their screenshots from campaign ;)

greggman 14y ago

Except for how the #1 selling game of all time, MW3 is 60hz as are the other games in the series http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111353 http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111353