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That's when you do the Enterprise deal. I have first hand knowledge of household name companies with billion euro IP who use OpenAI and Athropic products quite

That's when you do the Enterprise deal. I have first hand knowledge of household name companies with billion euro IP who use OpenAI and Athropic products quite liberally. They have WAY more lawyers than I do and their sole job is to keep the IP safe. They wouldn't sign a deal with even a slightest whiff of the IP being used to train anything. And if it happens, the penalty for breach of contract would have so many zeroes it'd be enough to buy a country.

bean469 2mo ago
> Although the LLM providers state that they will not use your data for training when you sign an enterprise deal It can be very hard to prove in court that your data was used for training
- avianlyric 2mo ago
  Not really, that’s what discovery is for. You just ask Anthropic and OpenAI to hand over every internal document and message that contains your companies name, or matches any reasonable query about where training data comes from. It very hard for a company to do anything without leaving some kind of paper trail behind that can be discovered in court. Not without crippling their own operations by simply refusing to digitise or write down anything. Lots of companies filled with people working very hard to obscure their shady practices have been hoisted by their own internal docs. Just look at any major Uber, Google, Apple, Microsoft lawsuit. Do really think Anthropic and OpenAI are gonna be better at destroying their paper trail before the lawsuit starts?
  - bean469 2mo ago
    Fair point!
- rolisz 2mo ago
  If it happened and you get to court, it's probably fairly simple to prove in court (subpoena, discovery, etc). It's not like training will happen only once and then they'll delete the data and all references to it. When training models, you want to have a full lineage of how you obtained it.
  - andriy_koval 2mo ago
    > it's probably fairly simple to prove in court (subpoena, discovery, etc). corp usually have all sensitive stuff ttl deleted for this reasons.
- hugmynutus 2mo ago
  If they did not use my data for training, they should permit me to run the first 1-3 layers of the model locally and send them dense hidden state vectors. In my experience these compress very nicely without much effort.
slimebot80 2mo ago
Used for training is one thing. Exposed to prying eyes is still unstoppable.

bean469 2mo ago

> Although the LLM providers state that they will not use your data for training when you sign an enterprise deal It can be very hard to prove in court that your data was used for training

avianlyric 2mo ago
Not really, that’s what discovery is for. You just ask Anthropic and OpenAI to hand over every internal document and message that contains your companies name, or matches any reasonable query about where training data comes from. It very hard for a company to do anything without leaving some kind of paper trail behind that can be discovered in court. Not without crippling their own operations by simply refusing to digitise or write down anything. Lots of companies filled with people working very hard to obscure their shady practices have been hoisted by their own internal docs. Just look at any major Uber, Google, Apple, Microsoft lawsuit. Do really think Anthropic and OpenAI are gonna be better at destroying their paper trail before the lawsuit starts?
- bean469 2mo ago
  Fair point!
rolisz 2mo ago
If it happened and you get to court, it's probably fairly simple to prove in court (subpoena, discovery, etc). It's not like training will happen only once and then they'll delete the data and all references to it. When training models, you want to have a full lineage of how you obtained it.
- andriy_koval 2mo ago
  > it's probably fairly simple to prove in court (subpoena, discovery, etc). corp usually have all sensitive stuff ttl deleted for this reasons.
hugmynutus 2mo ago
If they did not use my data for training, they should permit me to run the first 1-3 layers of the model locally and send them dense hidden state vectors. In my experience these compress very nicely without much effort.

slimebot80 2mo ago

Used for training is one thing. Exposed to prying eyes is still unstoppable.