2 ms·

> Why is spain suffering from this The same reason Italy, Portugal, and Greece are - they never fully recovered from the Eurozone collapse, and as a result wer

> Why is spain suffering from this The same reason Italy, Portugal, and Greece are - they never fully recovered from the Eurozone collapse, and as a result were unable to completely climb up the value chain on time. > has only avoided collapse in population through migration form LATAM and North Africa Spain's TFR is still in the 1.0 to 1.2 range and it's median age is still amongst the oldest in Europe (44.5). > LATAM It's still not attractive for much of LatAm. Much of the current LatAm wave in Spain and Italy is from Venezuela or Colombia, and most Venezolanos who could use immigration by descent have largely immigrated already. Spain doesn't have the same pull factor for LatAm that Canada or even the US still does thanks to higher incomes and pre-existing diaspora networks - especially given that Spain is still dealing with an ongoing braindrain to Western and Northern Europe. And any immigration from LatAm (excluding Venezuela) irrespective of Europe or NAM is fleeting as much of LatAm has developmentally caught up with Eastern and parts of Southern Europe.

otherme123 2mo ago
> they never fully recovered from the Eurozone collapse Fertility seems independent from anything economy related: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spa... , it happened well before 2008, and today it is only oscillating around the same 1.2 number. The same as many other rich countries. > It's still not attractive for much of LatAm. Much of the current LatAm wave in Spain and Italy is from Venezuela or Colombia Spain has Latam inmigration for each an every spanish speaking country in America: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmigraci%C3%B3n_en_Espa%C3%B1a#Demograf%C3%ADa https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmigraci%C3%B3n_en_Espa%C3%B1... . There is no clear skew towards Venezuela or Colombia, other than being the biggest countries. Once normalized per population (i.e. a small country like Uruguay with 3 million people won't send 1 million to Spain), you find that Cuba, Paraguay, Ecuador or Uruguay are above Venezuela in inmigration rate to Spain, and Honduras and Dominican Republic are above Colombia. Only Mexico (they probably migrate to the US) and Peru (I don't know why) have very low inmigration to Spain. > Spain doesn't have the same pull factor for LatAm that Canada 10% of current Spain population come from Latam. In Canada, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics, the first Latam source of inmigration country is Mexico (0.25% of Canada population), Colombia 0.22%, El Salvador 0.14%, Chile 0.08%, Venezuela 0.08%... Overall, probably less than 2% Canada population comes from Latam. I find it very difficult to believe that Canada has more pull than Spain. You seem to forget also that entering Spain means entering Schengen area: anyone coming from Latam that manages to come to Spain can "jump" to almost any other country in Europe except the UK without having to use a passport (including Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, that are not UE).
- pjc50 2mo ago
  > You seem to forget also that entering Spain means entering Schengen area: anyone coming from Latam that manages to come to Spain can "jump" to almost any other country in Europe except the UK without having to use a passport (including Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, that are not UE). Eh, not quite: once you become a Spanish national, yes, but just because there aren't internal border controls doesn't actually entitle you to turn entry or residence in Spain into entry or residence in another Schengen country.
- simianwords 2mo ago
  Last part is not true. Schengen only removes border controls but doesn’t allow you to legally work in any country.

otherme123 2mo ago

> they never fully recovered from the Eurozone collapse Fertility seems independent from anything economy related: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spa... , it happened well before 2008, and today it is only oscillating around the same 1.2 number. The same as many other rich countries. > It's still not attractive for much of LatAm. Much of the current LatAm wave in Spain and Italy is from Venezuela or Colombia Spain has Latam inmigration for each an every spanish speaking country in America: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmigraci%C3%B3n_en_Espa%C3%B1a#Demograf%C3%ADa https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmigraci%C3%B3n_en_Espa%C3%B1... . There is no clear skew towards Venezuela or Colombia, other than being the biggest countries. Once normalized per population (i.e. a small country like Uruguay with 3 million people won't send 1 million to Spain), you find that Cuba, Paraguay, Ecuador or Uruguay are above Venezuela in inmigration rate to Spain, and Honduras and Dominican Republic are above Colombia. Only Mexico (they probably migrate to the US) and Peru (I don't know why) have very low inmigration to Spain. > Spain doesn't have the same pull factor for LatAm that Canada 10% of current Spain population come from Latam. In Canada, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics, the first Latam source of inmigration country is Mexico (0.25% of Canada population), Colombia 0.22%, El Salvador 0.14%, Chile 0.08%, Venezuela 0.08%... Overall, probably less than 2% Canada population comes from Latam. I find it very difficult to believe that Canada has more pull than Spain. You seem to forget also that entering Spain means entering Schengen area: anyone coming from Latam that manages to come to Spain can "jump" to almost any other country in Europe except the UK without having to use a passport (including Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, that are not UE).

pjc50 2mo ago
> You seem to forget also that entering Spain means entering Schengen area: anyone coming from Latam that manages to come to Spain can "jump" to almost any other country in Europe except the UK without having to use a passport (including Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, that are not UE). Eh, not quite: once you become a Spanish national, yes, but just because there aren't internal border controls doesn't actually entitle you to turn entry or residence in Spain into entry or residence in another Schengen country.
simianwords 2mo ago
Last part is not true. Schengen only removes border controls but doesn’t allow you to legally work in any country.