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NAFTA and successive treaties forced Mexico to allow much cheaper corn from the USA to displace many smaller corn farms in Mexico, only larger farms could survi
by stevenwoo 2mo ago
NAFTA and successive treaties forced Mexico to allow much cheaper corn from the USA to displace many smaller corn farms in Mexico, only larger farms could survive that and farming of corn is declining in Mexico. Also inexpensive processed food displaced traditional diet goods at the same time for the same reasons, probably contributing to obesity epidemic that only started in Mexico after those treaties.
- WarmWash 2mo agoProcessed foods are not cheaper than healthier options. People constantly repeat this, but it's flat out wrong. The best way to apologize for people who, is to say that they don't have enough time to cook between all the jobs they have.
- Retric 2mo ago> cheaper than heather options Due to spoilage concerns grocery stores price food based on shelf stability not just production costs. Processed foods are generally shelf stable enough for this not to be a major concern. Similarly economies of scale apply in many situations. Slow cooking beans takes more energy the smaller the batch size due to surface area to volume ratios etc. Combined with the opportunity costs associated with cooking + cleanup means there’s very few healthy options that can compete with highly processed foods.
- WalterBright 2mo agoI bought over a pound of steak the other day for $5. (Yes, it was on sale. But it is frequently on sale.) Along with a potato for 50 cents, that's cheaper than a bag of Doritos. Oh, and I bought a banana for $.22. Cooking a steak takes about 10 minutes. Microwaving a TV dinner ($7.50) takes more time.
- mike50 1mo agoAnd the time for cleanup?
- nosmokewhereiam 2mo agoWait til you find out what's in a $5 steak! Our cheapest grass-fed tenderloin is $10 for a half pound cut. One. In a poor northern state. We had that cow two years and didn't supplement grain. Cheap as you can grow them. With a $5 steak, it might as well be corn chips.
- WalterBright 2mo agoThe $5 steak is the steak that's on sale. It doesn't affect the food value or the taste. A pound of steak is good for 4 meals for me. You can have your corn chips. No thanks.
- asgraham 2mo agoMicrowaving takes less attention and less skill, though. And less cleanup. And you don’t need to own a pan. And you don’t need to own spices (steak is a bad example ofc). And you don’t need to think about the side dishes. And you don’t need to agree on what’s for dinner. And I think it’s worth repeating, you don’t need any skill and can’t really screw it up. And you don’t need to worry about it going bad because you were too lazy to cook it. Etc. Processed food may not be cheaper, but the flavor:effort ratio is waaaaaay higher.
- WalterBright 2mo agoThrowing a steak in a frying pan is about the same effort as a microwave frozen dinner, and is objectively cheaper. There's no universe where processed food is cheaper.
- Retric 2mo agoYou can microwave a meal by tossing it into the microwave and walking away, you need to actually participate in cooking a steak and then clean up several surfaces. The stake is conservatively 10x as much effort and time is money, plus microwaves use far less energy. Processed food isn’t a single unified thing, the prices definitely overlap but the minimum and maximum prices for processed foods are lower. That’s why our food supply ended up looking like it does, economies of scale beat home cooking. That’s true even going back thousands of years where communal cooking drastically reduced the fuel needs in warm climates.
- tolien 2mo agoThis canard again [0]? You're comparing one piece of beef with a massive bag of Doritos. The banana's irrelevant, but last time you compared it to an enormous block of chocolate [1]. From experience a microwave meal should take about 3 minutes to cook so I don't know how you're taking more than 10 minutes unless, like your food item comparisons, you're cooking enough of them to feed an entire town. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49312807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49312807 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49314864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49314864
- WalterBright 2mo agoStouffers Spaghetti & Meatballs: 1. Cut film to vent 2. cook 6 1/2 mins on high 3. Let stand 1 min A frozen pot pie is 10.5 min. I don't know any frozen dinners for 3 min.
- WalterBright 2mo agoP.S. Hamburger is even cheaper
- Retric 2mo agoPot pie microwave time 4-5 minutes: https://airfry.guide/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Banquet-Chicken-Pot-Pie-package-rear-1280x1242.jpg https://airfry.guide/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Banquet-Chic... As to let sit time, if you can instantly pop a potato or other food into your mouth after it comes out of the microwave you haven’t cooked it.
- WalterBright 2mo agoMarie Calenders are 10.5 min.
- Retric 2mo agoNope: https://contenthandler-raleys.fieldera.com/prod/392493/1/0/0/71601803-Planogram-Back.jpg https://contenthandler-raleys.fieldera.com/prod/392493/1/0/0...
- rotringlvr 2mo agoWhen I was a grad student, I pointed this out to my poor neighbor with lots of health problems (5 pills a day!) who was shocked that I ate such expensive food despite being poorer still. 15 years later she's 50 lb lighter, takes no daily medication, and we have a mortgage and three kids. That's right, I fixed her up and married her.
- b112 2mo agoIt has been my experience, as a general rule (so it may not apply here), that people who grow up in the city are the worst at this. People with strong rural roots, or who grew up in rural areas, tend to have lived in houses, have freezers, space for long term storage of items, and may have personal knowledge of canning, and food storage. If one grows up in an apartment, there may not be space for a shelf with canned food and bags of rice and potatoes. I find that during harvest times, last year's canned foods are marked down. The logic being, I think, clear out their warehouses and get people to take last year's stuff home. And if you have space, you can take advantage of such things, and save, save, save. For food, poor rural people often have better outcomes than city folk, due to the ability to store when sale items are found. So when I read stories such as yours, I always wonder. City girl? Country boy? And as I said at the start, this is not a hard fact, just something I've noticed being a common reason why some people just "don't know".
- Retric 2mo agoPotatoes have a long shelf life and even then it’s not a clear win. A medium potato is around 110 calories. 15 * 150 calories servings = 5$ that’s 20.45 medium potatoes for 5$ or 24.4c per medium potato. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Doritos-Nacho-Cheese-Tortilla-Snack-Chips-Party-Size-14-5-Ounce-Bag/433078517?classType=REGULAR https://www.walmart.com/ip/Doritos-Nacho-Cheese-Tortilla-Sna... The potato requires prep, 10 minutes in the microwave ~= 1/4 kWh, and presumably a little salt and butter. A microwave meal is a more complete nutrition source and takes less time, making them more complex point of comparison.
- WalterBright 2mo agoPotato ------ Prep: 5 seconds under the faucet, 10 seconds to quarter it Cook: 3 min 40 sec in the microwave TV Dinner: 10 min in the microwave, $7.69 price
- Retric 2mo agoYou’re undercooked your potatoes the goal isn’t simply to warm them, but allow your body to more easily digest them. But this isn’t just a me thing: https://www.bigbearswife.com/how-to-cook-a-potato-in-the-microwave/ https://www.bigbearswife.com/how-to-cook-a-potato-in-the-mic... How long does it take to cook a potato in the microwave? Between 5-10 minutes https://microwaveshub.com/how-long-to-heat-up-a-potato-in-the-microwave/ https://microwaveshub.com/how-long-to-heat-up-a-potato-in-th... The cooking time to heat a potato in the microwave will largely depend on the size and type of potato. Here’s a general guideline: Medium Red 6-8 oz, 4-5 minutes large Russet 7-8 I’ve literally never seen a microwave meal take 10 minutes, but I’m guessing that’s theoretically possible if it’s got enough mass to heat up.
- WalterBright 2mo agoSee Marie Calendar pot pies. 10.5 minutes.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- jrflowers 2mo ago> Processed foods are not cheaper than healthier options. I have bad news for you about flour
- b112 2mo agoLikely, and then... after Mexican farms went out of business, they added biofuels, the price spiked, and Mexico had no domestic corn people could buy. It's sort of what they want for Canada. They keep trying to attack our protected agricultural sectors, and no sane country doesn't protect their food supply. Amusingly, they want 10% of our dairy market (as a start), and they already have a few percent. Yet we're 1/10th the size of them. So they make a massive fuss, over 5 additional percent of our market or so, which for their market size is 0.5% of its overall size. The US economy won't even notice, but the Canadian market will 10x as much. It's just petty.
- snayan 2mo agoYeah, but our dairy quota system is kinda fucked imo. We've created a market where the quotas are estimated to be worth somewhere between 40-45 billion. This financialization and the fact that banks have leant heavily against the quotas is part of the reason we're unwilling to move on this aspect in negotiation imo. I'm not saying that there's not value of protecting our food supply. But, in an affordability crisis, kinda feels this should be on the table for discussion given our supply chain management costs the average consumer an extra $250 a year or so.
- b112 2mo agoThat's quite cheap then. You see, the Americans are liars, as you may well know. They get upset at supply management, but they do it too. Instead of controlling production, and setting fair prices for producers, they handle it, like a bunch of nitwits, on the backend. They buy up excess milk, make cheese out of it, to artificially keep the market price high, and then store it for decades as it rots, in large underground limestone caverns. They buy out herds if production levels are too high. They have bought out large numbers of farms more than once, spending enormous sums, to reduce the supply. In fact, the American government has cost the American consumer far more than a measly $250 per year, for they force higher pricing too. And to do it? They spend like crazy, they spend tax money like crazy. But here's the thing. Every single government handles food production in some way. Every one. And the result is upward pricing pressure, almost always. We act responsibly. Sanely. The Americans just shrug their shoulders, blather on about not interfering, then do it anyhow regardless. Do not fall for their lies. It's all they do these days. The only goal they have, is to make us far more dependent upon them.
- stinkbeetle 2mo agoThis chart https://statbase.org/data/mex-prevalence-of-obesity-among-adults/ https://statbase.org/data/mex-prevalence-of-obesity-among-ad... Says that obesity was shooting up in Mexico before that. The obesity rate doubled in the 15 years before NAFTA. After NAFTA the rate doubled again in about 30 years. I can't really see any obvious change after 1994. Are these numbers incorrect, or were you meaning some other metric of obesity or obesity epidemic?
- stevenwoo 2mo agoGood point. I should have written something like correlated with urbanization and other factors. But ever increasing percentage is a correlation. The USA obesity rate has stabilized for a year iirc, but those of Mexican heritage have some unique vulnerabilities to obesity as well so a multi factorial issue.