5 ms·

The End of the University as We Know It

11 points by ekm2 14y ago

malandrew 14y ago
Does anyone else find it shocking that Yale will spend $600 million on a dorm to increase capacity by 1,000 students. That's a whopping $600,000 per student dorm room divided by the number of students per dorm. One source put the average dorm room at 12' x 19' feet split between two people. That's 114 square foot per person, or $5263 per square foot. Trulia puts the average cost per square foot of housing in New Haven, Connecticut (Yale's hometown) at a mere $102 per square foot. This means they are spending a 51x premium. San Francisco prices, as high as they are $626. These two dorms are 8x more than the San Francisco price. How can this even be justified? Ref: http://downtownnewhaven.blogspot.com/2008/09/ramsa-selected-for-yales-600-million.html http://downtownnewhaven.blogspot.com/2008/09/ramsa-selected-... http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/New_Haven-Connecticut/market-trends/ http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/New_Haven-Connecticut/mark...
- saurik 14y ago
  A) Some of the space in these new buildings is being used to "ease overcrowding in Yale’s existing facilities", so it is disingenuous to look solely at the increased number of undergraduates they will house. B) While dorm rooms are usually small, there is often a lot of shared space in the building: it is thereby also disingenuous to compare the cost per square foot in a dorm to that of an entire apartment. As an example of this, the "residential colleges" that Yale has also include dining halls (as demonstrated in the architect's renderings of the plans for this particular construction plan). C) When planning new buildings for what are pretty much best described as small cities, you also have to think about the surrounding infrastructure; apparently part of these projects is about revamping the nearby streets to handle the increased pedestrian and bicycle traffic that will result. D) This kind of expansion isn't just about new places for people to live and eat: if you look at what the money is being used for, it includes a dance studio, a fitness center, two cafes, three art studios, four computer labs, a theatre... and this isn't even a third of the list. -- Now, one can certainly argue about whether they really need to do all of this and whether they are getting the most value from the things they have decided to do, but you really can't just say that all they are doing is providing a place for 1,000 undergraduates to live and then start doing the math: those people need things to do, activities to be a part of, food to eat, specialized equipment and rooms for whatever their specialities are. (Also, I take issue with the idea that, even if it made sense, they could just "buy a three-bedroom home in New Haven for every new student it is bringing in", as the article examines, or could get the average rate on square footage as you do: there probably aren't even 1,000 houses on the market, so in addition to drastically alternating the demand market for housing in the area, which will itself alter the price, they are going to need to do new construction, which has massively different ramifications than just buying existing housing.)
Marmelade 14y ago
The education is peripheral to the experience of the university. Harvard, Yale, and other brand-name colleges command a premium because they insert you into the network of a higher economic class. University is a coming-of-age experience, where teens become adults. Sitting in Mom's basement doing online coursework for a degree is fine, but misses the point. Yes, the Internet has disrupted many business models, and there will definitely be losers: textbook manufacturers is an obvious example. In the final analysis, kids need a transition from their parents. For some that is military service, for some it is going off to college at 18/19, for some it is a brief period of independence at minimum wage followed by living at home into their 30's or until they get married and their wife/husband becomes their new parent. The current proliferation of online studies is fueled by the GI bill and employer tuition-reimbursement programs for people already employed. Online study is not for everyone, it takes a lot of dedication and commitment to complete a class, much less a degree. We are seeing an evolution, not a revolution.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  "Harvard, Yale, and other brand-name colleges command a premium because they insert you into the network of a higher economic class." Those are maybe ten universities out of thousands.
- cafard 14y ago
  "The current proliferation of online studies is fueled by the GI bill and employer tuition-reimbursement programs for people already employed. Online study is not for everyone, it takes a lot of dedication and commitment to complete a class, much less a degree." To the factor you mention I'd add the ferocious institutional will of the universities for expansion in any direction.
mentosarelies 14y ago
Cool, another article on a site visited primarily by computer scientist claiming that a degree isn't necessary...when the HR departments for these companies LOOK FOR A DEGREE...cool.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  Applying to a company big enough to have an HR department is probably a mistake.

11 points by ekm2 14y ago

Does anyone else find it shocking that Yale will spend $600 million on a dorm to increase capacity by 1,000 students. That's a whopping $600,000 per student dorm room divided by the number of students per dorm. One source put the average dorm room at 12' x 19' feet split between two people. That's 114 square foot per person, or $5263 per square foot. Trulia puts the average cost per square foot of housing in New Haven, Connecticut (Yale's hometown) at a mere $102 per square foot. This means they are spending a 51x premium. San Francisco prices, as high as they are $626. These two dorms are 8x more than the San Francisco price. How can this even be justified? Ref: http://downtownnewhaven.blogspot.com/2008/09/ramsa-selected-for-yales-600-million.html http://downtownnewhaven.blogspot.com/2008/09/ramsa-selected-... http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/New_Haven-Connecticut/market-trends/ http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/New_Haven-Connecticut/mark...

saurik 14y ago
A) Some of the space in these new buildings is being used to "ease overcrowding in Yale’s existing facilities", so it is disingenuous to look solely at the increased number of undergraduates they will house. B) While dorm rooms are usually small, there is often a lot of shared space in the building: it is thereby also disingenuous to compare the cost per square foot in a dorm to that of an entire apartment. As an example of this, the "residential colleges" that Yale has also include dining halls (as demonstrated in the architect's renderings of the plans for this particular construction plan). C) When planning new buildings for what are pretty much best described as small cities, you also have to think about the surrounding infrastructure; apparently part of these projects is about revamping the nearby streets to handle the increased pedestrian and bicycle traffic that will result. D) This kind of expansion isn't just about new places for people to live and eat: if you look at what the money is being used for, it includes a dance studio, a fitness center, two cafes, three art studios, four computer labs, a theatre... and this isn't even a third of the list. -- Now, one can certainly argue about whether they really need to do all of this and whether they are getting the most value from the things they have decided to do, but you really can't just say that all they are doing is providing a place for 1,000 undergraduates to live and then start doing the math: those people need things to do, activities to be a part of, food to eat, specialized equipment and rooms for whatever their specialities are. (Also, I take issue with the idea that, even if it made sense, they could just "buy a three-bedroom home in New Haven for every new student it is bringing in", as the article examines, or could get the average rate on square footage as you do: there probably aren't even 1,000 houses on the market, so in addition to drastically alternating the demand market for housing in the area, which will itself alter the price, they are going to need to do new construction, which has massively different ramifications than just buying existing housing.)

Marmelade 14y ago

The education is peripheral to the experience of the university. Harvard, Yale, and other brand-name colleges command a premium because they insert you into the network of a higher economic class. University is a coming-of-age experience, where teens become adults. Sitting in Mom's basement doing online coursework for a degree is fine, but misses the point. Yes, the Internet has disrupted many business models, and there will definitely be losers: textbook manufacturers is an obvious example. In the final analysis, kids need a transition from their parents. For some that is military service, for some it is going off to college at 18/19, for some it is a brief period of independence at minimum wage followed by living at home into their 30's or until they get married and their wife/husband becomes their new parent. The current proliferation of online studies is fueled by the GI bill and employer tuition-reimbursement programs for people already employed. Online study is not for everyone, it takes a lot of dedication and commitment to complete a class, much less a degree. We are seeing an evolution, not a revolution.

Turing_Machine 14y ago
"Harvard, Yale, and other brand-name colleges command a premium because they insert you into the network of a higher economic class." Those are maybe ten universities out of thousands.
cafard 14y ago
"The current proliferation of online studies is fueled by the GI bill and employer tuition-reimbursement programs for people already employed. Online study is not for everyone, it takes a lot of dedication and commitment to complete a class, much less a degree." To the factor you mention I'd add the ferocious institutional will of the universities for expansion in any direction.

mentosarelies 14y ago

Cool, another article on a site visited primarily by computer scientist claiming that a degree isn't necessary...when the HR departments for these companies LOOK FOR A DEGREE...cool.

Turing_Machine 14y ago
Applying to a company big enough to have an HR department is probably a mistake.