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So if all the tribe goes to one water source because that's what they always do. And someone decides they want to try other water sources because they don't wan

by benj111 1mo ago

So if all the tribe goes to one water source because that's what they always do. And someone decides they want to try other water sources because they don't want to use the traditional source just because it's always been done that way. What happens when the traditional source gets contaminated? The outsider then has an advantage. Yes tribal dynamics require people to act like sheep, but that can lead to getting stuck in local maxima, and not having any diversity.

rglullis 1mo ago
Amazing strawman you built here. Very impressive. Now try to argue the actual point, maybe?
- benj111 1mo ago
  " the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself" You are talking about putting all your eggs in the tribal cohesion basket. That doesn't deal very well with black swan events. Not putting all your eggs in one basket maintains the ability of the tribe to "duplicate itself". So given that I have provided an mechanism for improved survival of the group, that doesn't require the group to be completely homogeneous, please explain how I strawmanned your argument. Or maybe point out what point you were trying to make, as it evidently isn't very clear
  - rglullis 1mo ago
    > You are talking about putting all your eggs in the tribal cohesion basket. Sorry, that's waaaay off the mark. I am taking about OP's remark where he wants experts to not "talk about his brain (development) having a genetic mistake", and I am saying that any individual with a brain that has developed in a way that diverges from the norm (and consequently makes it more difficult to socialize, empathize and find a mate), then we can definitely say that this brain has a "genetic mistake".
    - benj111 1mo ago
      So explain "If we are talking about genes, the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself" That is your basis for 'mistake', and the general position that you are objectively right. I am saying divergence from the norm can also be a benefit towards the goal of keeping the ability to duplicate. Therefore you can't say that the genetic imperative to duplicate proves you are objectively right. Therefore you can't really support the view that it is a "genetic mistake", unless you want to make the claim that everything thatmakes us different from our proto 1 celled ancestors is a "genetic mistake".
      - rglullis 1mo ago
        You are once again taking the worst possible interpretation: every mutation is a "mistake" in the process of cellular duplication, that's all I said. Whether this "mistake" will have good or bad consequences will depend on how this is manifested in the individual and how it will fit with the environment.
        benj111 1mo ago
        No. I don't think so. Your original comment is basically 2 parts. "If we are talking about genes, the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself." We have already discussed the above. You then proceed on that basis. "If there is anything about this duplication process that has lead to the individual's brain development with difficulties to adapt to life with their tribe, socialization and chances of finding a mate are also hindered" You are basically restating evolution through the process of natural selection, with the implication that Neurodivergency is bad, because you are less genetically fit. I have, I hope demonstrated that that isn't necessarily the case. Neurodivergency can make the tribe more genetically fit, therefore the inference we are meant to draw from your post is incorrect. Unless we are expected to ignore the context, and you are just talking about evolution abstractly. But I would hope everyone here knows the basics of evolution, so why did you repeat them for no particular reason? Edit. Ps. My first response was more than fair, and you accused me of constructing a strawman, so please don't accuse me of using an unfair interpretation.

by benj111 1mo ago

rglullis 1mo ago

Amazing strawman you built here. Very impressive. Now try to argue the actual point, maybe?

benj111 1mo ago
" the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself" You are talking about putting all your eggs in the tribal cohesion basket. That doesn't deal very well with black swan events. Not putting all your eggs in one basket maintains the ability of the tribe to "duplicate itself". So given that I have provided an mechanism for improved survival of the group, that doesn't require the group to be completely homogeneous, please explain how I strawmanned your argument. Or maybe point out what point you were trying to make, as it evidently isn't very clear
- rglullis 1mo ago
  > You are talking about putting all your eggs in the tribal cohesion basket. Sorry, that's waaaay off the mark. I am taking about OP's remark where he wants experts to not "talk about his brain (development) having a genetic mistake", and I am saying that any individual with a brain that has developed in a way that diverges from the norm (and consequently makes it more difficult to socialize, empathize and find a mate), then we can definitely say that this brain has a "genetic mistake".
  - benj111 1mo ago
    So explain "If we are talking about genes, the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself" That is your basis for 'mistake', and the general position that you are objectively right. I am saying divergence from the norm can also be a benefit towards the goal of keeping the ability to duplicate. Therefore you can't say that the genetic imperative to duplicate proves you are objectively right. Therefore you can't really support the view that it is a "genetic mistake", unless you want to make the claim that everything thatmakes us different from our proto 1 celled ancestors is a "genetic mistake".
    - rglullis 1mo ago
      You are once again taking the worst possible interpretation: every mutation is a "mistake" in the process of cellular duplication, that's all I said. Whether this "mistake" will have good or bad consequences will depend on how this is manifested in the individual and how it will fit with the environment.
      - benj111 1mo ago
        No. I don't think so. Your original comment is basically 2 parts. "If we are talking about genes, the goal is to keep the ability to duplicate itself." We have already discussed the above. You then proceed on that basis. "If there is anything about this duplication process that has lead to the individual's brain development with difficulties to adapt to life with their tribe, socialization and chances of finding a mate are also hindered" You are basically restating evolution through the process of natural selection, with the implication that Neurodivergency is bad, because you are less genetically fit. I have, I hope demonstrated that that isn't necessarily the case. Neurodivergency can make the tribe more genetically fit, therefore the inference we are meant to draw from your post is incorrect. Unless we are expected to ignore the context, and you are just talking about evolution abstractly. But I would hope everyone here knows the basics of evolution, so why did you repeat them for no particular reason? Edit. Ps. My first response was more than fair, and you accused me of constructing a strawman, so please don't accuse me of using an unfair interpretation.