3 ms·

Europe is probably much closer in values. Beyond that societies can change quickly. Germany, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Peru, Chili, South Africa, ever

Europe is probably much closer in values. Beyond that societies can change quickly. Germany, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Peru, Chili, South Africa, every country in the USSR, and China too have changed values dramatically in short periods of time in the past 100 yrs. Also, China is not putting out videos that say they will dominate any country in the Americas. I'd urge us to take people seriously when they say what they value: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0

YZF 1mo ago
China could change but it is a totalitarian regime with no human rights and a terrible track record. I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't have a quantitative way of measuring this but I disagree Europe and Canada are closer in values. Canada has some "Europe" in it but a lot more "North America". If you put a random American and a random Canadian in one room they'll have a lot more common than a random Canadian and a random European. Random examples are suburbia and gun ownership. Many Canadians are dual-citizens. About a million US citizens live in Canada. Many Canadians work and travel to the US. Business, personal, family relationships etc. Similarly about a million Canadians live in the US. I've worked a lot with Europeans and Americans (I still do, I work for a large American company with offices in both). I've traveled to the US and to Europe. If you've done that a lot then you know the difference in feeling and culture.
- deaux 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - earthdeity 1mo ago
    I think this is a fair take, but also the US does this because it can. I don't think other countries don't do imperialism because they are morally pure, but because to do so means getting into conflict with the US. The US just has the biggest stick and so can push around other nations with impunity. The US domestically has a commendable historic commitment to free expression and press freedom, which are good things that China does badly. Those things deserve to be commended even while we condemn imperialism. China has its own record of imperialism in Nepal and its ambitions to attack Taiwan. It just doesn't (currently) have the position to act with impunity the US has long enjoyed.
    - remarkEon 1mo ago
      >[China] has a better track record than the US; trivially, as every other country does. This is a fair take? Really. That "every other country" has a better "human rights" track record than the US, so countries including Russia. Or the oft-accused-of-genocide Israel. I don't think it's possible to coherently debate these policy moves when the starting point for the opposition is "I am choosing to be insane about my view of history and the position of the respective countries party to the dispute".
      - vrganj 1mo ago
        The very existence of the US is predicated on ethnically cleansing the continent of native americans and large-scale ecocide.
        remarkEon 1mo ago
        [flagged]
        toomanyrichies 1mo ago
        What part of what they said is inaccurate?
        remarkEon 1mo ago
        All of it. If I thought I wanted to discuss technology with communists I'd join reddit.
        toomanyrichies 1mo ago
        "When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. ...In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. ...European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma." [1] America is built on the genocide of indigenous peoples. That fact is well-documented, whether you want to admit it or not. 1. https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/ https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peop...
- tw1984 1mo ago
  > I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. because you have a western centric view on freedom, democracy and human rights. it is certainly not your fault, you were brainwashed to believe it, you are the victim. when the US elected moron like Trump twice, with the congress full of traitors openly putting a foreign country's (which we are not allowed to name) interest first, when the UK has been in managed decline for decade, when the EU is literally ruled by far left extremists, you want to promote the western freedom and democracy? LOL I take that as a joke.
  - holgerschurig 1mo ago
    Cool, writing both "you were brainwashed to believe it" and "when the EU is literally ruled by far left extremists" in the same post. Let me address the 2nd point first: some US people are stupid and/or extreme right wing. Because only such a state of mind would explain why something in the center appears to them as "far left", or even "far left extremist". Perhaps it is because the bad US education system never introduced to them what left extremism actually is. E.g. the desire to seize all means of production out of private hands. That is: capital, farm land, companies. Or they would have heard about things like "dictatorship of the preletariat". If they now search for such ideology in EU countries, they wouldn't find anything. But hey, oftentimes they don't even start to search. Due to lack of knowledge and due to having already made up their worldview. No desire to check this worldview against actual facts. And sure, things like freedom is culturally. As a european, I often see that US people declare their country as the epitome of freedom. And they never talk about e.g. their slavery past. They think that the US is most democratic country and little can they show how this alleged democracy loving country is doing to ban gerrymandering (a thing that in REAL democratic country doesn't exist!). And they think they are the best at human rights, but few people know that their own government solds drugs to get money to overturn southern american society. Or that the US killed far more people --- without verdict! --- abroad than even the awful 9/11 criminals. But then again: some people can clearly see how e.g. the level of freedom, democracy and human rights vanished in Hong Kong after a real far left extremist regime took over there. And some people are so blind finding excuses for the actual far left extremist regime --- and blaming ones that entirely aren't of being exactly that.
14u2c 1mo ago
>Europe is probably much closer in values. 85% of Canadians live within 100 miles/160 km of the border. These are very integrated communities.
- tanaros 1mo ago
  > 85% of Canadians live within 100 miles/160 km of the border. These are very integrated communities. Yes, but the culture and values start shifting as soon as you cross the border, and they shift more the further south you go.
  - bloppe 1mo ago
    Spoken like someone who's never been to Alberta
    - gschrader 1mo ago
      There are a great number of Albertans that are elbows up and are pissed at Smith for entertaining the separatists so don’t paint them all with the same brush.
  - 14u2c 1mo ago
    That's just not true. What do you think the culture of northern US states is like? We're not talking about the deep south here. It makes this needless destruction all the more terrible.
inigyou 1mo ago
I don't know about the rest of those countries but Germany has changed values dramatically in the past 3 years.

YZF 1mo ago

China could change but it is a totalitarian regime with no human rights and a terrible track record. I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't have a quantitative way of measuring this but I disagree Europe and Canada are closer in values. Canada has some "Europe" in it but a lot more "North America". If you put a random American and a random Canadian in one room they'll have a lot more common than a random Canadian and a random European. Random examples are suburbia and gun ownership. Many Canadians are dual-citizens. About a million US citizens live in Canada. Many Canadians work and travel to the US. Business, personal, family relationships etc. Similarly about a million Canadians live in the US. I've worked a lot with Europeans and Americans (I still do, I work for a large American company with offices in both). I've traveled to the US and to Europe. If you've done that a lot then you know the difference in feeling and culture.

deaux 1mo ago
[flagged]
- earthdeity 1mo ago
  I think this is a fair take, but also the US does this because it can. I don't think other countries don't do imperialism because they are morally pure, but because to do so means getting into conflict with the US. The US just has the biggest stick and so can push around other nations with impunity. The US domestically has a commendable historic commitment to free expression and press freedom, which are good things that China does badly. Those things deserve to be commended even while we condemn imperialism. China has its own record of imperialism in Nepal and its ambitions to attack Taiwan. It just doesn't (currently) have the position to act with impunity the US has long enjoyed.
  - remarkEon 1mo ago
    >[China] has a better track record than the US; trivially, as every other country does. This is a fair take? Really. That "every other country" has a better "human rights" track record than the US, so countries including Russia. Or the oft-accused-of-genocide Israel. I don't think it's possible to coherently debate these policy moves when the starting point for the opposition is "I am choosing to be insane about my view of history and the position of the respective countries party to the dispute".
    - vrganj 1mo ago
      The very existence of the US is predicated on ethnically cleansing the continent of native americans and large-scale ecocide.
      - remarkEon 1mo ago
        [flagged]
        toomanyrichies 1mo ago
        What part of what they said is inaccurate?
        remarkEon 1mo ago
        All of it. If I thought I wanted to discuss technology with communists I'd join reddit.
        toomanyrichies 1mo ago
        "When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. ...In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. ...European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma." [1] America is built on the genocide of indigenous peoples. That fact is well-documented, whether you want to admit it or not. 1. https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/ https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peop...
tw1984 1mo ago
> I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. because you have a western centric view on freedom, democracy and human rights. it is certainly not your fault, you were brainwashed to believe it, you are the victim. when the US elected moron like Trump twice, with the congress full of traitors openly putting a foreign country's (which we are not allowed to name) interest first, when the UK has been in managed decline for decade, when the EU is literally ruled by far left extremists, you want to promote the western freedom and democracy? LOL I take that as a joke.
- holgerschurig 1mo ago
  Cool, writing both "you were brainwashed to believe it" and "when the EU is literally ruled by far left extremists" in the same post. Let me address the 2nd point first: some US people are stupid and/or extreme right wing. Because only such a state of mind would explain why something in the center appears to them as "far left", or even "far left extremist". Perhaps it is because the bad US education system never introduced to them what left extremism actually is. E.g. the desire to seize all means of production out of private hands. That is: capital, farm land, companies. Or they would have heard about things like "dictatorship of the preletariat". If they now search for such ideology in EU countries, they wouldn't find anything. But hey, oftentimes they don't even start to search. Due to lack of knowledge and due to having already made up their worldview. No desire to check this worldview against actual facts. And sure, things like freedom is culturally. As a european, I often see that US people declare their country as the epitome of freedom. And they never talk about e.g. their slavery past. They think that the US is most democratic country and little can they show how this alleged democracy loving country is doing to ban gerrymandering (a thing that in REAL democratic country doesn't exist!). And they think they are the best at human rights, but few people know that their own government solds drugs to get money to overturn southern american society. Or that the US killed far more people --- without verdict! --- abroad than even the awful 9/11 criminals. But then again: some people can clearly see how e.g. the level of freedom, democracy and human rights vanished in Hong Kong after a real far left extremist regime took over there. And some people are so blind finding excuses for the actual far left extremist regime --- and blaming ones that entirely aren't of being exactly that.

14u2c 1mo ago

>Europe is probably much closer in values. 85% of Canadians live within 100 miles/160 km of the border. These are very integrated communities.

tanaros 1mo ago
> 85% of Canadians live within 100 miles/160 km of the border. These are very integrated communities. Yes, but the culture and values start shifting as soon as you cross the border, and they shift more the further south you go.
- bloppe 1mo ago
  Spoken like someone who's never been to Alberta
  - gschrader 1mo ago
    There are a great number of Albertans that are elbows up and are pissed at Smith for entertaining the separatists so don’t paint them all with the same brush.
- 14u2c 1mo ago
  That's just not true. What do you think the culture of northern US states is like? We're not talking about the deep south here. It makes this needless destruction all the more terrible.

inigyou 1mo ago

I don't know about the rest of those countries but Germany has changed values dramatically in the past 3 years.