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Possibly waiting for a reasonable replacement for US tech. For example, if the US should decide to shut off MasterCard and VISA services to Europe, it would cre

Possibly waiting for a reasonable replacement for US tech. For example, if the US should decide to shut off MasterCard and VISA services to Europe, it would create non-trivial difficulties for the European banking system.

8note 1mo ago
its also a one time trick for america, similar to the strait of hormuz it would be so disruptive that europe would have to make and use an alternative, and then the US could not regain that market
- exceptione 1mo ago
  Now imagine the costs for the oligarchs to let that not happen. 'Might makes right' also applies internally. When the rules don't apply you will see fiefdoms eating each other and white collar crime cranked up to the max. In these dynamics there is a reason to get from your clan a tsar in power who can guarantee some level of stability. If you see a lot of sycophancy displayed around the don you know why.
- ColdStream 1mo ago
  There is a reason the US is worried about things like Pix is Brazil. Viable alternatives are coming online that cuts them out of the set of power.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    And UPI in India. And you know what? Those systems are working better than the US systems do. In Europe there's Weego or whatever it's called which is just a standardized QR code layer on top of the instant SEPA payments you can already do?
tpm 1mo ago
The banking system would probably be fine, only card payments would suffer but there are mostly already alternatives available.
telesilla 1mo ago
EU has started that with the Wero project. https://wero-wallet.eu/ https://wero-wallet.eu/
- ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
  But this can also just be removed from the app stores and the developer certificates can be revoked. Due to the centralized control and distribution of software on smartphones, no smartphone based payment system is really sovereign - it only exists because the US allows it to.
  - Moldoteck 1mo ago
    ability to sideload would help greatly
    - ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
      Yes, but Google is making that a lot more difficult soon, at least on stock Android
  - hahn-kev 1mo ago
    Except that's a very different threat than with Credit cards. Sure Google could do that, but Europe could even just make their own android fork if they wanted and that would be far easier than replacing the whole credit card system. And I doubt they would even need to fork Android, they could side load, or just make their own app store and require it to be installed on phones sold in the EU.
    - ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
      It's not a trivial task, but yes, they could and should. They could also just officially start supporting existing android alternatives such as GrapheneOS by requiring banks and government ID apps to be independent of Play Integrity, which can be done today for very little money and effort. Sideloading is not at option from 2027 since it will be made much much more difficult than it is today, requiring users to enable it via developer options and wait 24 hours.
codedokode 1mo ago
Europe just needs to have its own clearing center. Russia did this, and cards work internally without any trouble. As a nice bonus, transaction information does not go to US.

8note 1mo ago

its also a one time trick for america, similar to the strait of hormuz it would be so disruptive that europe would have to make and use an alternative, and then the US could not regain that market

exceptione 1mo ago
Now imagine the costs for the oligarchs to let that not happen. 'Might makes right' also applies internally. When the rules don't apply you will see fiefdoms eating each other and white collar crime cranked up to the max. In these dynamics there is a reason to get from your clan a tsar in power who can guarantee some level of stability. If you see a lot of sycophancy displayed around the don you know why.
ColdStream 1mo ago
There is a reason the US is worried about things like Pix is Brazil. Viable alternatives are coming online that cuts them out of the set of power.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  And UPI in India. And you know what? Those systems are working better than the US systems do. In Europe there's Weego or whatever it's called which is just a standardized QR code layer on top of the instant SEPA payments you can already do?

tpm 1mo ago

The banking system would probably be fine, only card payments would suffer but there are mostly already alternatives available.

telesilla 1mo ago

EU has started that with the Wero project. https://wero-wallet.eu/ https://wero-wallet.eu/

ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
But this can also just be removed from the app stores and the developer certificates can be revoked. Due to the centralized control and distribution of software on smartphones, no smartphone based payment system is really sovereign - it only exists because the US allows it to.
- Moldoteck 1mo ago
  ability to sideload would help greatly
  - ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
    Yes, but Google is making that a lot more difficult soon, at least on stock Android
- hahn-kev 1mo ago
  Except that's a very different threat than with Credit cards. Sure Google could do that, but Europe could even just make their own android fork if they wanted and that would be far easier than replacing the whole credit card system. And I doubt they would even need to fork Android, they could side load, or just make their own app store and require it to be installed on phones sold in the EU.
  - ulrikrasmussen 1mo ago
    It's not a trivial task, but yes, they could and should. They could also just officially start supporting existing android alternatives such as GrapheneOS by requiring banks and government ID apps to be independent of Play Integrity, which can be done today for very little money and effort. Sideloading is not at option from 2027 since it will be made much much more difficult than it is today, requiring users to enable it via developer options and wait 24 hours.

codedokode 1mo ago

Europe just needs to have its own clearing center. Russia did this, and cards work internally without any trouble. As a nice bonus, transaction information does not go to US.