5 ms·

Htmx live is cool. Datastar is fast. This cow is raw and strong

13 points by bobowski 1mo ago

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
leoooodias 1mo ago
Holy AI generated everything.
- stanmancan 1mo ago
  HN needs an AI flag or something. Not sure how well it would work, but worth an experiment.
  - bobowski 1mo ago
    Ai generate with human in the loop, so hard to say it’s not while also saying it’s terrible. Definitely the fact that I have ai makes it more fesable for me to actually publish something rather than spednign years on copy I can spend time on code and outsource copy
    - alsanan 1mo ago
      Agree. AI generated is not bad if it's well directed and audited in a loop by a human in good detail. I won't discard a project because a tool has been used. That's extremism. I'll take a look at the project first.
      - bobowski 1mo ago
        Hope you’ll like it. At least concepts, I know htmx live or datastar are more mature so there’s no discussion about it. Would you have any hints what to avoid for „next time”? Should I just make this absurdly small and make much less polished approach even for this kind of project? Honest question. Will try to work on anything you suggest <3
    - stanmancan 1mo ago
      The only way to get better at writing is by writing. I’d rather read a less polished but clearly human written article than something clearly written by AI. If I can’t tell I can’t tell. Use it for editing or as a review but the weird hyperbolic AI stuff makes me instantly close an article. I barely got past the intro: ONE ATTRIBUTE. EXACT BEHAVIOR. The markup says what happens. Start with local behavior. Add the server only when the interaction needs to cross the wire. The attribute is moo= — in case you were wondering what the ox says.
      - bobowski 1mo ago
        „You’re absolutely right” ;) Your onto something here, thanks - the title and the section where the things I’ve spent more time on than the rest I mean this „ Behavior, right where it happens. moo= for reactive signals and ordinary JavaScript on the element itself. Datastar SSE when the interaction has to cross the wire and patch HTML and state.” Still feels bad but I know I went trhu it couple of times. Not so much with the new sample you give here. Gotta work on that. Thanks!
        stanmancan 1mo ago
        I only shared because it might very well be cool stuff but if people are tired of AI writing and close it like me then it’s a lost opportunity. Not publishing at all is a bigger loss though, so it’s a tricky balance.
        bobowski 1mo ago
        Exactly my thoughts. Decided to publish and iterate. Deslopifying over time could verywell be a viable approach.
- bobowski 1mo ago
  Yea. Any particular thing you’d say is beyond terrible - in matter of concepts not just the visuals? Actual library is fairly cool if you asked me - concept wise to learn a thing or two about how web works
froh42 1mo ago
So many words and so few content.
- bobowski 1mo ago
  Take a look at cookbook. Lots of examples and solutions. Landing page could be better, I agree
arjie 1mo ago
I wonder if people will start writing like this over time. “Order the fries with the burger. They go well together” becoming “the fries amplify the burger. One order. Together. Not separate — united ”. Haha man. The kids will think it’s normal and we’ll sit here like crotchety old men.
- bobowski 1mo ago
  Yea. The bad thing as non native English speaker and spending whole days with LLMs at this point I can’t event notice that’s something sounding bad. Any hints what should I look at to avoid this? I hope you like the concept of the ox at least ;)
  - arjie 1mo ago
    I actually don’t know what the concept is and I’m not going to look to see if it’s real. There is a lot of spam like this now on the Internet. Sorry, you might be a real Nigerian prince in urgent need of my bank account details but I can’t really know. I use HTMX and like it so I might have read if it didn’t look like spam post. Good luck with your project. Your English fluency is fine.
    - bobowski 1mo ago
      I meant the headline - because I understand that’s what you refer to. I’ll try to make is less like spam post next time. Just headlining as „built tiny js lib that works like HTMX live or datastar but also slightly different” Anyhow, thanks for commenting - will try to improve for next time Thanks! PS: send your bank details via email, not here in public ;)
  - dundercoder 1mo ago
    When I learned Spanish and had the opportunity to speak with native Spanish speaking friends I told them “if you love me, correct my Spanish” I know of no other way, because there are lots of technically grammatically correct ways to say things in English, but sounds awkward to a native speaker. You can’t know really on your own.
derefr 1mo ago
I think this page is communicating something, but it's doing it in a very confusing and elliptical way. The page seems to assume the reader is highly familiar with both "Htmx" and "Datastar SSE", and understands implicitly that this project is (I gather) some kind of complement to using them. This is a great example of one of the current failure modes of coding agents (which were almost certainly used here): the creator of this project probably described the project in these terms to the agent. Something like: > I want to make a Javascript library that works like Htmx or Datastar SSE, enabling a web developer to add well-known behaviors to a page just by adding HTML attributes. This library will be for the cases those libraries don't cover: triggering purely-local state changes in the state of [elements? web components? not sure]; where because these state changes get persisted to the DOM in some way or another, they are visible to, the state these behavior-attributes mutate can be referenced by Htmx/Datastar/etc in their behavior-attribute DSLs. Then, either because the agent is already briefed in these terms — or because the agent has then gone on to write all the code for this library in the same conversation, and so has that code in its context — the result is that the agent, when it moves on to the "generate docs and README" step, treats all this as assumed shared context for those docs, since (from the agent's perspective) the docs and README exist "in" the conversation "downstream" of the project brief and code; and, from its original base-model training, the model knows that things introduced early in a conversation shouldn't be re-introduced later on in the same conversation, but rather should be succinctly referenced. (My hypothesis, that I haven't yet tested, is that you can work around this flaw by starting a fresh conversation before asking the model to write docs. The model should see info that enters the context through e.g. "read a file" tool-call responses differently than it sees things you or it "say", not treating that info as "real" conversation turns but more like e.g. source-code excerpts in a blog post, where the learned base-model expectation would be that everything that appears in the excerpted figure will be re-explained in plain language in following prose.) But, of course, this is still a flaw in current models, and the "right" solution is still for the model providers to train models to be able to conceptualize of multiple "conversational reference graphs" co-occurring within the context, and compartmentalize linguistic/semantic referencing on a per-graph basis; such that top-level prose and inline code excerpted for explanation both exist in the default "internal" reference graph, while code and docs generated to be written into a codebase through tool-calls exist in a separate "external" reference graph.

13 points by bobowski 1mo ago

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

leoooodias 1mo ago

Holy AI generated everything.

stanmancan 1mo ago
HN needs an AI flag or something. Not sure how well it would work, but worth an experiment.
- bobowski 1mo ago
  Ai generate with human in the loop, so hard to say it’s not while also saying it’s terrible. Definitely the fact that I have ai makes it more fesable for me to actually publish something rather than spednign years on copy I can spend time on code and outsource copy
  - alsanan 1mo ago
    Agree. AI generated is not bad if it's well directed and audited in a loop by a human in good detail. I won't discard a project because a tool has been used. That's extremism. I'll take a look at the project first.
    - bobowski 1mo ago
      Hope you’ll like it. At least concepts, I know htmx live or datastar are more mature so there’s no discussion about it. Would you have any hints what to avoid for „next time”? Should I just make this absurdly small and make much less polished approach even for this kind of project? Honest question. Will try to work on anything you suggest <3
  - stanmancan 1mo ago
    The only way to get better at writing is by writing. I’d rather read a less polished but clearly human written article than something clearly written by AI. If I can’t tell I can’t tell. Use it for editing or as a review but the weird hyperbolic AI stuff makes me instantly close an article. I barely got past the intro: ONE ATTRIBUTE. EXACT BEHAVIOR. The markup says what happens. Start with local behavior. Add the server only when the interaction needs to cross the wire. The attribute is moo= — in case you were wondering what the ox says.
    - bobowski 1mo ago
      „You’re absolutely right” ;) Your onto something here, thanks - the title and the section where the things I’ve spent more time on than the rest I mean this „ Behavior, right where it happens. moo= for reactive signals and ordinary JavaScript on the element itself. Datastar SSE when the interaction has to cross the wire and patch HTML and state.” Still feels bad but I know I went trhu it couple of times. Not so much with the new sample you give here. Gotta work on that. Thanks!
      - stanmancan 1mo ago
        I only shared because it might very well be cool stuff but if people are tired of AI writing and close it like me then it’s a lost opportunity. Not publishing at all is a bigger loss though, so it’s a tricky balance.
        bobowski 1mo ago
        Exactly my thoughts. Decided to publish and iterate. Deslopifying over time could verywell be a viable approach.
bobowski 1mo ago
Yea. Any particular thing you’d say is beyond terrible - in matter of concepts not just the visuals? Actual library is fairly cool if you asked me - concept wise to learn a thing or two about how web works

froh42 1mo ago

So many words and so few content.

bobowski 1mo ago
Take a look at cookbook. Lots of examples and solutions. Landing page could be better, I agree

arjie 1mo ago

I wonder if people will start writing like this over time. “Order the fries with the burger. They go well together” becoming “the fries amplify the burger. One order. Together. Not separate — united ”. Haha man. The kids will think it’s normal and we’ll sit here like crotchety old men.

bobowski 1mo ago
Yea. The bad thing as non native English speaker and spending whole days with LLMs at this point I can’t event notice that’s something sounding bad. Any hints what should I look at to avoid this? I hope you like the concept of the ox at least ;)
- arjie 1mo ago
  I actually don’t know what the concept is and I’m not going to look to see if it’s real. There is a lot of spam like this now on the Internet. Sorry, you might be a real Nigerian prince in urgent need of my bank account details but I can’t really know. I use HTMX and like it so I might have read if it didn’t look like spam post. Good luck with your project. Your English fluency is fine.
  - bobowski 1mo ago
    I meant the headline - because I understand that’s what you refer to. I’ll try to make is less like spam post next time. Just headlining as „built tiny js lib that works like HTMX live or datastar but also slightly different” Anyhow, thanks for commenting - will try to improve for next time Thanks! PS: send your bank details via email, not here in public ;)
- dundercoder 1mo ago
  When I learned Spanish and had the opportunity to speak with native Spanish speaking friends I told them “if you love me, correct my Spanish” I know of no other way, because there are lots of technically grammatically correct ways to say things in English, but sounds awkward to a native speaker. You can’t know really on your own.

derefr 1mo ago

I think this page is communicating something, but it's doing it in a very confusing and elliptical way. The page seems to assume the reader is highly familiar with both "Htmx" and "Datastar SSE", and understands implicitly that this project is (I gather) some kind of complement to using them. This is a great example of one of the current failure modes of coding agents (which were almost certainly used here): the creator of this project probably described the project in these terms to the agent. Something like: > I want to make a Javascript library that works like Htmx or Datastar SSE, enabling a web developer to add well-known behaviors to a page just by adding HTML attributes. This library will be for the cases those libraries don't cover: triggering purely-local state changes in the state of [elements? web components? not sure]; where because these state changes get persisted to the DOM in some way or another, they are visible to, the state these behavior-attributes mutate can be referenced by Htmx/Datastar/etc in their behavior-attribute DSLs. Then, either because the agent is already briefed in these terms — or because the agent has then gone on to write all the code for this library in the same conversation, and so has that code in its context — the result is that the agent, when it moves on to the "generate docs and README" step, treats all this as assumed shared context for those docs, since (from the agent's perspective) the docs and README exist "in" the conversation "downstream" of the project brief and code; and, from its original base-model training, the model knows that things introduced early in a conversation shouldn't be re-introduced later on in the same conversation, but rather should be succinctly referenced. (My hypothesis, that I haven't yet tested, is that you can work around this flaw by starting a fresh conversation before asking the model to write docs. The model should see info that enters the context through e.g. "read a file" tool-call responses differently than it sees things you or it "say", not treating that info as "real" conversation turns but more like e.g. source-code excerpts in a blog post, where the learned base-model expectation would be that everything that appears in the excerpted figure will be re-explained in plain language in following prose.) But, of course, this is still a flaw in current models, and the "right" solution is still for the model providers to train models to be able to conceptualize of multiple "conversational reference graphs" co-occurring within the context, and compartmentalize linguistic/semantic referencing on a per-graph basis; such that top-level prose and inline code excerpted for explanation both exist in the default "internal" reference graph, while code and docs generated to be written into a codebase through tool-calls exist in a separate "external" reference graph.