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> TUIs run on any OS with minor patches to support quirks, GUI frameworks need a lot of work. TUIs don't need to follow any OS guidelines, cross-platform GUIs a

> TUIs run on any OS with minor patches to support quirks, GUI frameworks need a lot of work. TUIs don't need to follow any OS guidelines, cross-platform GUIs always look bad outside of the "main" platform. Have you tried to write a GUI program lately? I suspect things may have changed. I can write one using Qt, EGUI, etc (Or many other options), and it will just work on Windows, Mac, Linux/Wayland, and Linux/X. Basically, you write your application on top of a GUI framework that smooths over OS differences for you.

zahlman 2mo ago
> I can write one using Qt, EGUI, etc (Or many other options), and it will just work on Windows, Mac, Linux/Wayland, and Linux/X. This is hard to square with the continuing obsession with Electron.
- d-us-vb 2mo ago
  I suspect the u ubiquity of electron persists more because maintaining both web and desktop interfaces is somewhat simplified, and as a corollary, you don’t need a separate JS and C/C++/QML team. Qt has gotten pretty good, but JavaScript and typescript are easier to hire.
  - pjmlp 2mo ago
    Pay for cheap labour, get a cheap product. I thought Claude could do anything nowadays.
  - bionade24 2mo ago
    QML is a Javascript Superset
    - d-us-vb 2mo ago
      But it runs on Qt, which is most certainly not.
- rtpg 2mo ago
  I think Qt is a bit different here because of Qt Quick etc but I've tried using "native" GUI frameworks a lot and ultimately the web DOM model is pretty nice for iterating easily. Querying into the DOM and working off of that means you're not futzing about holding onto a bunch of component references for the one thing you might need later on. Web layout is also pretty easy to just get right, native GUI frameworks have a different kind of layout model that is not as amenable to "arbitrary" data (at least at first blush). the reactive programming model also works quite well. While there are native GUI frameworks that lean into reactive programming, they tend to be doing a bunch of weird stuff that cause other issues. And at the end of the day, when you package something like a Qt app it still often ends up being quite chunky. In the end tho... the simplest thing is if you do web stack you get a web UI _and_ your "native" GUI in one go. Build things once, not twice. Hard to argue against that when that's presented.
4k93n2 2mo ago
they wont work on android though. thats the main reason i started using more TUIs myself. i needed to be able to run a bunch of python scripts on linux, windows and android/termux. or if any of the linux phones ever matures, or sailfish, then the same scripts will run thereas well, probably without any modifications needed
- okanat 2mo ago
  KDE has a framework based on Qt's QML that works on Android. It is called Kirigami. They have written apps and even a complete Plasma Mobile using it. The apps work both on Android and Linux. Mobile has significant paradigm changes that makes using both terminals and traditional GUIs harder anyway though. I do expect the need for completely different cross-platform libraries for mobile UIs.
- pjmlp 2mo ago
  Termux is not the right way to execute Apps on Android, Pydroid does the job. Also, Qt does support Android development.
  - 4k93n2 2mo ago
    why is it not right? ive been using it for years and everything works just fine
    - pjmlp 2mo ago
      It is trying to fit GNU/Linux into Android/Linux, on a model that has only worked so far because internal politics have prevented the replacement of Linux kernel with Zirkon. The official NDK documentation on what is supported for NDK written code on non rooted devices, and the hurdles that Termux faces to keep running on standard Android images via PlayStore distribution, show why it isn't right.

zahlman 2mo ago

> I can write one using Qt, EGUI, etc (Or many other options), and it will just work on Windows, Mac, Linux/Wayland, and Linux/X. This is hard to square with the continuing obsession with Electron.

d-us-vb 2mo ago
I suspect the u ubiquity of electron persists more because maintaining both web and desktop interfaces is somewhat simplified, and as a corollary, you don’t need a separate JS and C/C++/QML team. Qt has gotten pretty good, but JavaScript and typescript are easier to hire.
- pjmlp 2mo ago
  Pay for cheap labour, get a cheap product. I thought Claude could do anything nowadays.
- bionade24 2mo ago
  QML is a Javascript Superset
  - d-us-vb 2mo ago
    But it runs on Qt, which is most certainly not.
rtpg 2mo ago
I think Qt is a bit different here because of Qt Quick etc but I've tried using "native" GUI frameworks a lot and ultimately the web DOM model is pretty nice for iterating easily. Querying into the DOM and working off of that means you're not futzing about holding onto a bunch of component references for the one thing you might need later on. Web layout is also pretty easy to just get right, native GUI frameworks have a different kind of layout model that is not as amenable to "arbitrary" data (at least at first blush). the reactive programming model also works quite well. While there are native GUI frameworks that lean into reactive programming, they tend to be doing a bunch of weird stuff that cause other issues. And at the end of the day, when you package something like a Qt app it still often ends up being quite chunky. In the end tho... the simplest thing is if you do web stack you get a web UI _and_ your "native" GUI in one go. Build things once, not twice. Hard to argue against that when that's presented.

4k93n2 2mo ago

they wont work on android though. thats the main reason i started using more TUIs myself. i needed to be able to run a bunch of python scripts on linux, windows and android/termux. or if any of the linux phones ever matures, or sailfish, then the same scripts will run thereas well, probably without any modifications needed

okanat 2mo ago
KDE has a framework based on Qt's QML that works on Android. It is called Kirigami. They have written apps and even a complete Plasma Mobile using it. The apps work both on Android and Linux. Mobile has significant paradigm changes that makes using both terminals and traditional GUIs harder anyway though. I do expect the need for completely different cross-platform libraries for mobile UIs.
pjmlp 2mo ago
Termux is not the right way to execute Apps on Android, Pydroid does the job. Also, Qt does support Android development.
- 4k93n2 2mo ago
  why is it not right? ive been using it for years and everything works just fine
  - pjmlp 2mo ago
    It is trying to fit GNU/Linux into Android/Linux, on a model that has only worked so far because internal politics have prevented the replacement of Linux kernel with Zirkon. The official NDK documentation on what is supported for NDK written code on non rooted devices, and the hurdles that Termux faces to keep running on standard Android images via PlayStore distribution, show why it isn't right.