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> And then the Europeans suddenly discover that they cannot manufacture enough artillery shells and tanks to out-number the Russians. Germany (by itself) is ap

> And then the Europeans suddenly discover that they cannot manufacture enough artillery shells and tanks to out-number the Russians. Germany (by itself) is apparently out-producing the US artillery shell production. * https://www.newsweek.com/germany-overtakes-us-in-ammunition-production-capacity-11886409 https://www.newsweek.com/germany-overtakes-us-in-ammunition-... Russia's GDP is below that of Italy (and barely above Canada, who is in NATO): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... If the Europeans really want to, they could produce a lot more by converting over to 'war mode'. Certainly they need to do more with current geopolitics, but there is no need to crank it to 11.

deleted 2mo ago
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amarcheschi 2mo ago
>if the Europeans really want to, they could produce a lot more by converting over to 'war mode' As an Italian there's definitely been a perceptible shift due to the increase in defense spending. Leonardo now makes TV ads (something I had never seen before), they advertise on newspapers (...) Off topic, but it's funny to me how the Leonardo TV ads basically skips over the defense part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXytSNOt_0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXytSNOt_0I
codedokode 2mo ago
Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia.
- dbdr 2mo ago
  Of course, because Russia spends 7+% of its GDP on its military, and Italy 1.6%. It does say something about the relative capacity though. Russia probably cannot sustain this level of spending forever, and European countries could (continue) raising it if needed.
- throw0101a 2mo ago
  > Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia. Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing. And Italy is just one member of NATO: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - AlexandrB 2mo ago
    If the economic capacity is in "the service sector" it's going to be just about meaningless in a war.
  - bethekidyouwant 2mo ago
    yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory.
    - throw0101a 1mo ago
      > yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory. Exactly. (What do you think happened during WW2? When war broken out everyone learned to make tanks (and planes, and machine guns, and…). In Ukraine a whole bunch of people learned how to make drones that never made one before. )
  - owebmaster 2mo ago
    > Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing. Italy can make more expensive tanks that would amount to a bigger GDP. It doesn't mean it'll make more and better tanks.
    - 1mo ago
- 8note 2mo ago
  it doesnt, but it does speak to an ability to invest in tank production dunno why youd want tanks and not drones though, when even russia's new tanks with anti-drone defenses can be taken out by 30ish drones

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amarcheschi 2mo ago

>if the Europeans really want to, they could produce a lot more by converting over to 'war mode' As an Italian there's definitely been a perceptible shift due to the increase in defense spending. Leonardo now makes TV ads (something I had never seen before), they advertise on newspapers (...) Off topic, but it's funny to me how the Leonardo TV ads basically skips over the defense part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXytSNOt_0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXytSNOt_0I

codedokode 2mo ago

Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia.

dbdr 2mo ago
Of course, because Russia spends 7+% of its GDP on its military, and Italy 1.6%. It does say something about the relative capacity though. Russia probably cannot sustain this level of spending forever, and European countries could (continue) raising it if needed.
throw0101a 2mo ago
> Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia. Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing. And Italy is just one member of NATO: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- AlexandrB 2mo ago
  If the economic capacity is in "the service sector" it's going to be just about meaningless in a war.
- bethekidyouwant 2mo ago
  yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory.
  - throw0101a 1mo ago
    > yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory. Exactly. (What do you think happened during WW2? When war broken out everyone learned to make tanks (and planes, and machine guns, and…). In Ukraine a whole bunch of people learned how to make drones that never made one before. )
- owebmaster 2mo ago
  > Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing. Italy can make more expensive tanks that would amount to a bigger GDP. It doesn't mean it'll make more and better tanks.
  - 1mo ago
8note 2mo ago
it doesnt, but it does speak to an ability to invest in tank production dunno why youd want tanks and not drones though, when even russia's new tanks with anti-drone defenses can be taken out by 30ish drones