3 ms·

Apart from all the problems Adam Lanza had, and the fact he was, I'm sure, drugged up on a cocktail of psychotropics. Can we stop pretending that the gun killed

by walru 14y ago

Apart from all the problems Adam Lanza had, and the fact he was, I'm sure, drugged up on a cocktail of psychotropics. Can we stop pretending that the gun killed these people and start acknowledging it was a person who killed these people. Maybe, just maybe, if Nancy was a better parent, and her son wasn't cast away into a land of prescription pills, this would have never happened. We don't need to abandon the second amendment - it's there for a reason - what we need to do is start being better parents, and better individuals to one another. Disclaimer: I don't own a gun, nor do I want to.

glhaynes 14y ago
Do we have evidence at this point that Ms Lanza wasn't "a good parent" (aside from some apparent negligence regarding keeping her guns stored well)? Or that her son was "cast away into a land of prescription pills"?
- walru 14y ago
  Given the scenario, I was extrapolating, just as everyone else has with this senseless act, but it has been reported that he was on medication in another Slate article. And yes, not locking up your weapons is grounds for calling someone a bad parent, as is not teaching your child that under NO circumstances should you ever feel taking another persons life is a valid solution to a problem. I'm just tired of all the rhetoric.. as everyone pretends that by getting rid of all the guns we would effectively end all the violence.
anigbrowl 14y ago
Blaming medication is as facile as blaming guns in general for violence. I've taken a lot of prescription psychotropic medicine (as well as lot of proscription medication, IYSWIM), and I've never felt the urge to launch a homicidal attack on anyone. What we need is a multifaceted approach to the problem; better and more accessible treatment regimes for the mentally ill; better protocols for restraining the dangerous without scrapping their rights; better tracking of firearms and ammunition (eg NanoTags - http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/AFTEVol38No1KrivostaNanoTag.pdf http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/AFTEVol38No1KrivostaNan...) and better regulation of gun ownership in order to achieve the goal of a well-regulated militia as stated in the 2nd Amendment. I'm not in favor of banning guns, but I think licensure, recertification, and insurance should all be part of responsible gun ownership. Apparently this Lanza woman was convinced of an imminent economic collapse and presumably thought her reportedly-Autistic son would be in danger in any resultant breakdown of society, so she taught him to shoot. Her misapprehensions about the danger to her own and her son's life imposed a horrendous cost on her community. Beside that, the cost of insurance is negligible.
mindcrime 14y ago
We don't need to abandon the second amendment - it's there for a reason - what we need to do is start being better parents, and better individuals to one another. Well said. My first gun was purchased for me (by my maternal grandfather) before I was born and I've owned guns and shot guns my entire life. And ya know what? I've never felt any temptation to go on a homicidal shooting binge. BUT... my father took me out and taught me to shoot when I was about 9 or so, and a big part of the "shooting lesson" was drilling into my head a notion of respect for human life, the importance of firearms safety and a mindset that one should never pull a gun on someone unless they are threatening you and you intend to kill them. I know it's very PC to blame guns right now, but it's very short-sighted to ignore the impact of parenting, a culture that glamorizes violence (and gun violence in particular), the state of mental health care, and other factors.
jack-r-abbit 14y ago
... and be better gun owners. Lock your guns.
bunderbunder 14y ago
Can we please stop pretending "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is anything but the most specious of oversimplifactions? Yes, a person killed all these people. But he wouldn't have been able to if he didn't have easy access to firearms and a large cache of ammunition. Everything else that can be said on the subject of what would or would not have prevented this is speculation that is, at best, contingent on a large number of factors about which none of us can possibly know enough to make anything but the most tentative of suggestions. But it's absolutely a cut and dry truth that it would not have been possible for him to do this if he (he specifically) had not had access to the kinds of weapons necessary to enable someone to commit these kinds of murders.
- Pewpewarrows 14y ago
  Not looking to get into a whole thing here, but... > he wouldn't have been able to if he didn't have easy access to firearms and a large cache of ammunition. There's no possible way you can know that. Guns are certainly more accessible than, say, making a pipe bomb, but definitely less accessible than knives. Reference that story floating around the internet the past few days of some guy stabbing 22 kids in China. Not to mention the fact that you also have no knowledge of how capable he was of illegally obtaining the firearms and ammunition from other sources.
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    Zero of those 22 kids in China died.
  - bunderbunder 14y ago
    I have read about that one. There's a significant difference in verbs between the two stories. In one sentence it's "stabbed", in the other it's "killed". And only seven of them needed to be taken to the hospital.
    - lotharbot 14y ago
      But you probably didn't read about the other knife/axe/hammer attacks in China over the last few years, some of which did kill a lot of people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010... (via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School_massacres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School... ).

by walru 14y ago

glhaynes 14y ago

Do we have evidence at this point that Ms Lanza wasn't "a good parent" (aside from some apparent negligence regarding keeping her guns stored well)? Or that her son was "cast away into a land of prescription pills"?

walru 14y ago
Given the scenario, I was extrapolating, just as everyone else has with this senseless act, but it has been reported that he was on medication in another Slate article. And yes, not locking up your weapons is grounds for calling someone a bad parent, as is not teaching your child that under NO circumstances should you ever feel taking another persons life is a valid solution to a problem. I'm just tired of all the rhetoric.. as everyone pretends that by getting rid of all the guns we would effectively end all the violence.

anigbrowl 14y ago

Blaming medication is as facile as blaming guns in general for violence. I've taken a lot of prescription psychotropic medicine (as well as lot of proscription medication, IYSWIM), and I've never felt the urge to launch a homicidal attack on anyone. What we need is a multifaceted approach to the problem; better and more accessible treatment regimes for the mentally ill; better protocols for restraining the dangerous without scrapping their rights; better tracking of firearms and ammunition (eg NanoTags - http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/AFTEVol38No1KrivostaNanoTag.pdf http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/AFTEVol38No1KrivostaNan...) and better regulation of gun ownership in order to achieve the goal of a well-regulated militia as stated in the 2nd Amendment. I'm not in favor of banning guns, but I think licensure, recertification, and insurance should all be part of responsible gun ownership. Apparently this Lanza woman was convinced of an imminent economic collapse and presumably thought her reportedly-Autistic son would be in danger in any resultant breakdown of society, so she taught him to shoot. Her misapprehensions about the danger to her own and her son's life imposed a horrendous cost on her community. Beside that, the cost of insurance is negligible.

mindcrime 14y ago

We don't need to abandon the second amendment - it's there for a reason - what we need to do is start being better parents, and better individuals to one another. Well said. My first gun was purchased for me (by my maternal grandfather) before I was born and I've owned guns and shot guns my entire life. And ya know what? I've never felt any temptation to go on a homicidal shooting binge. BUT... my father took me out and taught me to shoot when I was about 9 or so, and a big part of the "shooting lesson" was drilling into my head a notion of respect for human life, the importance of firearms safety and a mindset that one should never pull a gun on someone unless they are threatening you and you intend to kill them. I know it's very PC to blame guns right now, but it's very short-sighted to ignore the impact of parenting, a culture that glamorizes violence (and gun violence in particular), the state of mental health care, and other factors.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago

... and be better gun owners. Lock your guns.

bunderbunder 14y ago

Can we please stop pretending "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is anything but the most specious of oversimplifactions? Yes, a person killed all these people. But he wouldn't have been able to if he didn't have easy access to firearms and a large cache of ammunition. Everything else that can be said on the subject of what would or would not have prevented this is speculation that is, at best, contingent on a large number of factors about which none of us can possibly know enough to make anything but the most tentative of suggestions. But it's absolutely a cut and dry truth that it would not have been possible for him to do this if he (he specifically) had not had access to the kinds of weapons necessary to enable someone to commit these kinds of murders.

Pewpewarrows 14y ago
Not looking to get into a whole thing here, but... > he wouldn't have been able to if he didn't have easy access to firearms and a large cache of ammunition. There's no possible way you can know that. Guns are certainly more accessible than, say, making a pipe bomb, but definitely less accessible than knives. Reference that story floating around the internet the past few days of some guy stabbing 22 kids in China. Not to mention the fact that you also have no knowledge of how capable he was of illegally obtaining the firearms and ammunition from other sources.
- glhaynes 14y ago
  Zero of those 22 kids in China died.
- bunderbunder 14y ago
  I have read about that one. There's a significant difference in verbs between the two stories. In one sentence it's "stabbed", in the other it's "killed". And only seven of them needed to be taken to the hospital.
  - lotharbot 14y ago
    But you probably didn't read about the other knife/axe/hammer attacks in China over the last few years, some of which did kill a lot of people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010... (via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School_massacres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School... ).