3 ms·

Maybe it's different where you live, but 95% of the buses I see driving around here are completely empty.

fwip 1mo ago
Are you near the city center, or out near the suburbs? It's common for a bus to be crowded on one part of the route and nearly empty at the end.
- cyberax 1mo ago
  And this is a fundamental issue with transit. It _has_ to travel as mostly empty on avereage to be useful.
  - fragmede 1mo ago
    ...no? In the heart of downtown, with people riding in both directions, I don't see how it follows that it has to mostly empty to be useful. If it's full you can't get on so that's not useful, but anything less than totally full should still be useful.
    - tjwebbnorfolk 1mo ago
      Because most of the mileage is not burned downtown, it's burned by having a bunch of empty buses drive way out of town and pick up in 0 or 1 or 2 people until it fills up right near the center.
      - fwip 1mo ago
        If you look at average ridership over time, you'll see that the times when it has 40-60 people on it give an average passenger density much higher than cars, even after averaging in the longer empty miles. (40 passengers is a pretty comfortable, not crowded bus.) Simplifying, but a mile of 40 people, averaged with 10 miles of 1 person, is still an average of 5 people. And those are deliberately bad numbers. As I understand it, average bus occupancy in Seattle is around 10 or 15 people per bus, during non-commuting hours. (Commute is often quite crowded).
  - fwip 1mo ago
    Its not a meaningful issue. The passenger density is higher on even a mostly empty bus than cars, and the pollution is lower as well.
- tjwebbnorfolk 1mo ago
  I'm a half-mile from downtown. Yes I'm sure it's crowded downtown, but most of the mileage is not burned downtown, it's burned by driving way out of town and bringing in 0 or 1 or 2 people until it fills up right near the center. Buses appear way more efficient than SOVs until you actually spend a couple minutes of critical thinking to realize they're not

fwip 1mo ago

Are you near the city center, or out near the suburbs? It's common for a bus to be crowded on one part of the route and nearly empty at the end.

cyberax 1mo ago
And this is a fundamental issue with transit. It _has_ to travel as mostly empty on avereage to be useful.
- fragmede 1mo ago
  ...no? In the heart of downtown, with people riding in both directions, I don't see how it follows that it has to mostly empty to be useful. If it's full you can't get on so that's not useful, but anything less than totally full should still be useful.
  - tjwebbnorfolk 1mo ago
    Because most of the mileage is not burned downtown, it's burned by having a bunch of empty buses drive way out of town and pick up in 0 or 1 or 2 people until it fills up right near the center.
    - fwip 1mo ago
      If you look at average ridership over time, you'll see that the times when it has 40-60 people on it give an average passenger density much higher than cars, even after averaging in the longer empty miles. (40 passengers is a pretty comfortable, not crowded bus.) Simplifying, but a mile of 40 people, averaged with 10 miles of 1 person, is still an average of 5 people. And those are deliberately bad numbers. As I understand it, average bus occupancy in Seattle is around 10 or 15 people per bus, during non-commuting hours. (Commute is often quite crowded).
- fwip 1mo ago
  Its not a meaningful issue. The passenger density is higher on even a mostly empty bus than cars, and the pollution is lower as well.
tjwebbnorfolk 1mo ago
I'm a half-mile from downtown. Yes I'm sure it's crowded downtown, but most of the mileage is not burned downtown, it's burned by driving way out of town and bringing in 0 or 1 or 2 people until it fills up right near the center. Buses appear way more efficient than SOVs until you actually spend a couple minutes of critical thinking to realize they're not