5 ms·

>There are many instances today of cops forcibly entering a home claiming nothing more than a welfare check, or "we received a call." Sure, but there are also

by xoa 1mo ago

>There are many instances today of cops forcibly entering a home claiming nothing more than a welfare check, or "we received a call." Sure, but there are also many instances today of evidence getting thrown out in court due to cops not getting a warranty and poisoning the tree and all its fruit. Rights don't just enforce themselves, there are and have to be a number of layers to the onion to help reduce the violation numbers at each stage.

malfist 1mo ago
There's also plenty of examples of even if the evidence is thrown out, there's damage to life or property that is never made whole.
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  That's not really relevant this was about going to jail after police break the constitution. If we're talking about bad things cops do there's civil asset forfeiture.
- _heimdall 1mo ago
  I'm personally less concerned with those cases and more concerned with evidence that ultimately is thrown out allowed them to build a case that otherwise would have gone nowhere. Say they search a vehicle without consent or probable cause and find weed. Then they further investigate the person and find additional evidence they otherwise never would have found. That weed find may get thrown out but it doesn't always nullify the rest of the case, and if the DA is clever they simply wouldn't submit the weed as evidence at all.
  - _heimdall 1mo ago
    Maybe a better example as a half decent defense attorney, or the judge, could get subsequent evidence thrown out there. A cop pulls you over for a brake light. They decide to go fishing, asking where you're coming from or where you're going, looking for any inconsistency to pull on. Maybe they decide they smell something on your breath. A well informed person would refuse to ask questions and help ensure the traffic stop can move forward with the ticket, the cop isn't allowed to hold you for longer than required for the initial offense. Most people when asked questions, though, will answer. Most people asked to take a field sobriety test will oblige. None of that is required and all requires consent - the cop knows that and knows that few people will stand up for that. Such fishing expeditions should be illegal and anything found should be considered inadmissible due to unreasonable search. When the professional trained in law knows that they can game the average person it should be unreasonable practice.
    - briHass 1mo ago
      They can push pretty hard. Even this law student, who knows the game, is almost worn down by these officers https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3t--Glqs2o&t=1163s&pp=ygUdTGF3IHN0dWRlbnQgc3RvcHBlZCBieSBwb2xpY2U%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3t--Glqs2o&t=1163s&pp=ygUdTGF...
_heimdall 1mo ago
Rights needing to occasionally be upheld by the courts wasn't my complaint though. Its cases where rights we're clearly infringed, at least I'd expect most citizens would agree, and courts uphold it because a person didn't say a particular phrase, for example, or because a "reasonable" cop would have seen a cracked door as implied consent.
maccard 1mo ago
The minute the entanglement happens the person on the receiving end’s life gets 1000x more complicated. It’s a hollow victory if you have to go to court and spend a year or more defending yourself

by xoa 1mo ago

malfist 1mo ago

There's also plenty of examples of even if the evidence is thrown out, there's damage to life or property that is never made whole.

Cider9986 1mo ago
That's not really relevant this was about going to jail after police break the constitution. If we're talking about bad things cops do there's civil asset forfeiture.
_heimdall 1mo ago
I'm personally less concerned with those cases and more concerned with evidence that ultimately is thrown out allowed them to build a case that otherwise would have gone nowhere. Say they search a vehicle without consent or probable cause and find weed. Then they further investigate the person and find additional evidence they otherwise never would have found. That weed find may get thrown out but it doesn't always nullify the rest of the case, and if the DA is clever they simply wouldn't submit the weed as evidence at all.
- _heimdall 1mo ago
  Maybe a better example as a half decent defense attorney, or the judge, could get subsequent evidence thrown out there. A cop pulls you over for a brake light. They decide to go fishing, asking where you're coming from or where you're going, looking for any inconsistency to pull on. Maybe they decide they smell something on your breath. A well informed person would refuse to ask questions and help ensure the traffic stop can move forward with the ticket, the cop isn't allowed to hold you for longer than required for the initial offense. Most people when asked questions, though, will answer. Most people asked to take a field sobriety test will oblige. None of that is required and all requires consent - the cop knows that and knows that few people will stand up for that. Such fishing expeditions should be illegal and anything found should be considered inadmissible due to unreasonable search. When the professional trained in law knows that they can game the average person it should be unreasonable practice.
  - briHass 1mo ago
    They can push pretty hard. Even this law student, who knows the game, is almost worn down by these officers https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3t--Glqs2o&t=1163s&pp=ygUdTGF3IHN0dWRlbnQgc3RvcHBlZCBieSBwb2xpY2U%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3t--Glqs2o&t=1163s&pp=ygUdTGF...

_heimdall 1mo ago

Rights needing to occasionally be upheld by the courts wasn't my complaint though. Its cases where rights we're clearly infringed, at least I'd expect most citizens would agree, and courts uphold it because a person didn't say a particular phrase, for example, or because a "reasonable" cop would have seen a cracked door as implied consent.

maccard 1mo ago

The minute the entanglement happens the person on the receiving end’s life gets 1000x more complicated. It’s a hollow victory if you have to go to court and spend a year or more defending yourself