4 ms·

Death to the Self-Playing Game

6 points by speckx 2mo ago

bigyabai 2mo ago
> If somebody automated Devil Daggers, I would stab them in the hands with a barbeque fork. If you stab them in the hands with a fork, then they need to automate Devil Daggers to play it. Not an easy game to enjoy missing half a hand, it or Hyper Demon. I didn't read past the paywall fold, but this seems like a pretty silly hill to die on. Many of the best games - Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Starcraft, Simcity - all automate their background tedium to let players focus on more interesting skill expression. If you took away the macro focus and forced people to micromanage every gameplay element, it feels fair to say that all of them would become worse games with very little added to the experience. Even the author's ironic ideas, like "automate Street Fighter" echoes a real-world genre of turn based fighting games that end up being awesome spectator sports. YOMI Hustle has a pretty dedicated community that ekes out frame-perfect skill expression that other fighting games dream of: https://youtu.be/fZVsO62e4Aw https://youtu.be/fZVsO62e4Aw
- snapcaster 2mo ago
  I agree with your take (as someone with 3k hours in factorio). I think there is different categories of automated though. In one case you're still solving problems just at a higher level, in the other case you're no longer solving any problems. Like, getting logistics drones in factorio does automate some aspects of the game but then you just increase your scope and scale and still have the same core problem of "grow the factory"
jareklupinski 2mo ago
if Vampire Survivors is a dopamine shortcut, then > This post is for paying subscribers only is a cortisol hack. thanks author :( i'm going back to actually having fun!
- moririri 2mo ago
  Thanks for the warning, would rather not waste my time reading an article only to get half way through it and find a paywall -_-
- tptacek 2mo ago
  Paywalled articles with no workaround are actually off topic on HN, for whatever that's worth to you.
- kwoff 2mo ago
  I play a self-playing game with sites that do that. I click the Block Site (Firefox extension) button, and the site never appears again. Talk about easy mode! :)
furyofantares 2mo ago
It's a silly take. When one mechanic is removed or automated it should be seen as being in service of focusing on another. I can see an extremely nitpicky complaint that this can make it so a game looks like it's a genre you like but then in reality it's a genre that you don't. That's OK though, you can adapt to new information, and not every game needs to be for you.
- InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
  Yeah, the article's premise is false. If Vampire Survivors plays itself, then how come I suck at it?
  - thih9 2mo ago
    For me it clicked after I explored more of the options available in the game. For a long while I didn’t notice that the character can be upgraded. I thought it was some paid consumables UI, while this is a roguelite game mechanic.
paleotrope 2mo ago
Well that's an opinion.
scirob 2mo ago
Vampire survivor is an amazing game. If you can't accept the value of entertainment then the rest of your life is probably to easy. But fair enough everyone can have their take.
thih9 2mo ago
These games are not self playing, you lose if you don’t make the correct choices. This is just a different type of game. > In a May 2026 update, Valve named the genre Bullet Heaven on their Steam tagging system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_Survivors%E2%80%93like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_Survivors%E2%80%93like
- HeavyStorm 2mo ago
  Exactly
- ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
  Never played these games, but from reading the wiki, are the right choices pre determined? I could be misreading it but it does sound like vampire survivors is functionally an auto clicker
  - thih9 2mo ago
    Right choices can be predetermined in non auto clicker games; especially if not all options are available at all times.
    - ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
      But if a game has no interactive mechanics and functionally no choices is it a game? Not calling it bad, just not convinced its entirely a game either. Will have to buy and see for myself. From the steam reviews: " Vampire survivors is something I'll never go back to. It's got the hallmarks of a great roguelite, but oh my god... Just like Ball x Pit, this game has decisons. But such a small amount that they almost don't matter. The gameplay outside of decisions is fed you to you on a spoon. Dodge enemies, upgrade weapons, finish run, upgrade stats. But these don't make the game good, they make the gameplay feel pointless. But I think that's what alot of people... want...? They want a mindless game. You don't have to try super hard. You don't have to think about decisions if you don't want. You just make a build good enough that the rest of the run is a waiting simulator. But then why am I playing? Not to overcome some great challenge. Not to construct some masterpiece of a run. Not to create beautiful memories. Just something to do in the blank spaces of life. Its a dopamine farm At least it's cheaper than smoking.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago
Clearly have no clue what they are talking about, there is plenty of way to lose at vampire survivors, winning requires a lot of exploration. The game is NOT the movement except if you build your character particularly poorly. The game is exploration and build choices. Choosing the wrong level upgrade will make you lose.

6 points by speckx 2mo ago

> If somebody automated Devil Daggers, I would stab them in the hands with a barbeque fork. If you stab them in the hands with a fork, then they need to automate Devil Daggers to play it. Not an easy game to enjoy missing half a hand, it or Hyper Demon. I didn't read past the paywall fold, but this seems like a pretty silly hill to die on. Many of the best games - Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Starcraft, Simcity - all automate their background tedium to let players focus on more interesting skill expression. If you took away the macro focus and forced people to micromanage every gameplay element, it feels fair to say that all of them would become worse games with very little added to the experience. Even the author's ironic ideas, like "automate Street Fighter" echoes a real-world genre of turn based fighting games that end up being awesome spectator sports. YOMI Hustle has a pretty dedicated community that ekes out frame-perfect skill expression that other fighting games dream of: https://youtu.be/fZVsO62e4Aw https://youtu.be/fZVsO62e4Aw

snapcaster 2mo ago
I agree with your take (as someone with 3k hours in factorio). I think there is different categories of automated though. In one case you're still solving problems just at a higher level, in the other case you're no longer solving any problems. Like, getting logistics drones in factorio does automate some aspects of the game but then you just increase your scope and scale and still have the same core problem of "grow the factory"

jareklupinski 2mo ago

if Vampire Survivors is a dopamine shortcut, then > This post is for paying subscribers only is a cortisol hack. thanks author :( i'm going back to actually having fun!

moririri 2mo ago
Thanks for the warning, would rather not waste my time reading an article only to get half way through it and find a paywall -_-
tptacek 2mo ago
Paywalled articles with no workaround are actually off topic on HN, for whatever that's worth to you.
kwoff 2mo ago
I play a self-playing game with sites that do that. I click the Block Site (Firefox extension) button, and the site never appears again. Talk about easy mode! :)

furyofantares 2mo ago

It's a silly take. When one mechanic is removed or automated it should be seen as being in service of focusing on another. I can see an extremely nitpicky complaint that this can make it so a game looks like it's a genre you like but then in reality it's a genre that you don't. That's OK though, you can adapt to new information, and not every game needs to be for you.

InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
Yeah, the article's premise is false. If Vampire Survivors plays itself, then how come I suck at it?
- thih9 2mo ago
  For me it clicked after I explored more of the options available in the game. For a long while I didn’t notice that the character can be upgraded. I thought it was some paid consumables UI, while this is a roguelite game mechanic.

paleotrope 2mo ago

Well that's an opinion.

scirob 2mo ago

Vampire survivor is an amazing game. If you can't accept the value of entertainment then the rest of your life is probably to easy. But fair enough everyone can have their take.

thih9 2mo ago

These games are not self playing, you lose if you don’t make the correct choices. This is just a different type of game. > In a May 2026 update, Valve named the genre Bullet Heaven on their Steam tagging system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_Survivors%E2%80%93like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_Survivors%E2%80%93like

HeavyStorm 2mo ago
Exactly
ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
Never played these games, but from reading the wiki, are the right choices pre determined? I could be misreading it but it does sound like vampire survivors is functionally an auto clicker
- thih9 2mo ago
  Right choices can be predetermined in non auto clicker games; especially if not all options are available at all times.
  - ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
    But if a game has no interactive mechanics and functionally no choices is it a game? Not calling it bad, just not convinced its entirely a game either. Will have to buy and see for myself. From the steam reviews: " Vampire survivors is something I'll never go back to. It's got the hallmarks of a great roguelite, but oh my god... Just like Ball x Pit, this game has decisons. But such a small amount that they almost don't matter. The gameplay outside of decisions is fed you to you on a spoon. Dodge enemies, upgrade weapons, finish run, upgrade stats. But these don't make the game good, they make the gameplay feel pointless. But I think that's what alot of people... want...? They want a mindless game. You don't have to try super hard. You don't have to think about decisions if you don't want. You just make a build good enough that the rest of the run is a waiting simulator. But then why am I playing? Not to overcome some great challenge. Not to construct some masterpiece of a run. Not to create beautiful memories. Just something to do in the blank spaces of life. Its a dopamine farm At least it's cheaper than smoking.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago

Clearly have no clue what they are talking about, there is plenty of way to lose at vampire survivors, winning requires a lot of exploration. The game is NOT the movement except if you build your character particularly poorly. The game is exploration and build choices. Choosing the wrong level upgrade will make you lose.