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I would disagree with that, I've seen people anchor their own identity to that of brands like Apple or Disney. They may not be aesthetics you find cool, but cl
by xnorswap 1mo ago
I would disagree with that, I've seen people anchor their own identity to that of brands like Apple or Disney.
They may not be aesthetics you find cool, but clearly they appeal to a large number of others.
- devin 1mo agoAnchoring your identity to brands is tragically uncool no matter how you slice it.
- zer00eyz 1mo agoThis comment feels like it's from the early 90's when people were being critical of bands for selling out.
- BaseBaal 1mo agoReminds me of Tool's reaction to that trend, "Hooker with a Penis" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooker_with_a_Penis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooker_with_a_Penis
- antonvs 1mo agoThat's a very different situation. An individual "anchoring their identity" to a brand isn't doing so to earn money, which is why bands "sell out". It's just a choice they make about who they are, and I have to agree with GP that that seems tragically uncool.
- BoingBoomTschak 1mo agoIs there something wrong with being critical of bands for selling out, though?
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agothe concept of selling out often seems seriously under-specified, and thus, like many things in our society, it becomes a tool for one set of people to improve their own status by attacking another set of people. It is in the end a moral stance on what are the proper aesthetics, which is the kind of thing that manages to make both morality and aesthetics extremely suspect.
- 3636yey 1mo agohow can someone say morality is suspect and expect to be treated like a human being
- HashHishBang 1mo agoNah, the aesthetics argument is a distraction. Engaging with art is engaging with another human being. Finding out that the other human being is, in fact, a corporation in a trenchcoat sucks. I would go so far as to label it a feeling of betrayal that leaks into everything else the artist touches. Does anyone think The Rock has anything of substance to say about anything anymore? Do we think Post Malone isn't just trying to make a few more bucks after selling out entire genres? Seeing Iggy fucking Pop shill insurance is genuinely painful.
- ompogUe 1mo agoHear, hear! Cadillac using Led Zeppelin broke something in me. I'm on the fence with the Beastie Boys getting used in movie fight scenes. They said they'd never do ads. Elevates the scenes, but it also elevates the IP of Disney and Paramount.
- harimau777 1mo agoI think that is because it is a social value. It isn't meant to be a rigid rule; it's meant to be a guideline that can adapt to the needs of the situation. There has to be nuance in social values.
- zer00eyz 1mo agoNo, It was a rare magical moment where consumerism receded - flannels were never about brands. Your band had to be "authentic" (and I hate that word) and anti corporate. It's the point in time where we all started hating ticket master. It was replaced by GAP sweatshirts and Britney Spears, and you can draw a straight line to people waiting on lines for iPhones, your C suite in fleece vests and Taylor Swift.
- Barrin92 1mo agoit didn't recede, this kind of rebellion was what made it thrive (see the book The Rebel Sell, Why Culture can't be Jammed) or Deleuze: “The death of a social machine has never been heralded by a disharmony or a dysfunction; on the contrary, social machines make a habit of feeding on the contradictions they give rise to, on the crises they provoke, on the anxieties they engender, and on the infernal operations they regenerate. Capitalism has learned this, and has ceased doubting itself [...] No one has ever died from contradictions. And the more it breaks down, the more it schizophrenizes, the better it works, the American way. It wasn't a coicindence or betrayal that punk bands 'sold out', the punk part is exactly what made them sell out. Demand for authenticity, difference and individualism is what drives consumerism. The heart of consumerism is counter-culture.
- thwarted 1mo agoExcept this is being critical of the popularity and fans, not the band.
- InsideOutSanta 1mo agoAKA the good old times when it wasn't as culturally accepted to be openly evil if it made money.
- ArekDymalski 1mo agoBut it wasn't in the early cyberpunk works. When you consume them you can notice how important was the concept of "style", that characters were excited by the specific brands (implants, weapons, shaders, venues), associated them with social status etc. It was the 90s that brought contempt for brands to (paradoxically) mainstream.
- slopinthebag 1mo agoApple is the only big tech company with a decent aesthetic tho.
- cocacola1 1mo agoThey might be then only ones. Cult of Mac, Disney Adults, etc. But they’ve aesthetics that resonate with a lot of people. Meta, Google, etc., for whatever reason, don’t.
- Apocryphon 1mo agoProduct/design-first vs. engineering-first orgs
- kergonath 1mo agoI don’t think that’s really it. Plenty of engineers care about elegance and functionality. I think calling them engineering-led is a disservice to engineers in general. Everything out of Google is Rube-Goldberg machines held together with duct tape. It is engineering in a way, but by squirrels on crack. It’s alien to how engineering is done in the real world. Everything out of Meta is pure evil. It is engineering-led if you could behavioural psychologists designing Skinner boxes as engineers. Actually, I’ll grant the Oculus division, which was mostly about engineering and designed cool products. The exception in the Borg.
- Apocryphon 1mo agoGoogle was also characterized by their infamous data-first 41 shades of blue A/B test. It seems like they went into an extreme where design was informed by user behavior, by empiricism, rather than by the taste of the designer. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/why-google-engineers-designers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/why-googl... > Actually, I’ll grant the Oculus division, which was mostly about engineering and designed cool products. Oculus was an acquisition, so maybe that's why.