3 ms·

watch this and see if you think it has intelligence by the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8

by figers 1mo ago

bayindirh 1mo ago
I also like this: https://laurentiugabriel.github.io/token-town/ https://laurentiugabriel.github.io/token-town/ It shows internals of an LLM nicely, simplified manner.
pyridines 1mo ago
This looks interesting, but would you mind saying a sentence or two about why before I commit to an hour-long video? It looks like it shows how they work internally, which is sort of a non sequitur. Brains also work mechanistically. I'm claiming that any system which is able to do what AIs do must necessarily have some sort of intelligence.
- figers 1mo ago
  fair reply to an hour video, Scott is just so good to hear his talk is better than I can explain it... go to 24 minutes and 07 seconds. it's statistically determining what the next word should be based on all the text it's been trained on. It's not intelligence and he shows what probability it puts on each word that it chooses, but also shows a lot of the other words it was thinking of using. In a later part he shows how it uses words that are not the highest probability (and you question why did it go this route, it's not more correct), but the user never sees this, they see what they think is the correct answer always... he also shows how context you feed it has a lot to do with what it returns... to the point he can get it to return the capital of France is Marseille, just by typing Marseille a bunch of times before the question. Human intelligence doesn't get confused like that. And it's not a "hallucination", it's just probability of the next token prediction based on the information it's been trained on and fed, it's not intelligence.
  - rnd33 1mo ago
    Isn't this a case of missing the trees for the forest though? The human brain is not an LLM, and an LLM is not intelligent in the same way as a human brain. However, an LLM is a prediction machine, prediction IS at the very least one (or the most fundamental) element of intelligence. The brain most surely contains at least some kind of simulacrum of a prediction machine. How that prediction machine is used or wrapped is another matter. If I said to you: "Blue blue blue, the color of my car is red", would you have absolute confidence in your prediction that my car is red? Or would the way I phrased that sentence make you slightly uncertain, and wonder if there's some miscommunication going on here?
    - figers 1mo ago
      LLMs are awesome awesome tech! A lot of people seem to think it's human level intelligence.
  - mitthrowaway2 1mo ago
    > Human intelligence doesn't get confused like that. We do; this is the premise of many children's riddle-games, like the one that goes: "What is white and rhymes with silk? > Milk. What is cheese made from? > Milk. > What do cows drink?" At which point the riddle-guesser is very likely to answer "milk" even though the correct answer is "water".
    - recursive 1mo ago
      I take issue with your "correct" answer. Q: Why do cows produce milk? A: Because calves (baby cows) drink it.
      - mitthrowaway2 1mo ago
        Yep, if the riddle asked "what do calves drink", then "milk" would definitely have been the correct answer.
        1mo ago
ragequittah 1mo ago
I wonder if you went back before we had any idea how the brain worked and talked to the smartest people about how neurons work (without giving away that it's a human brain) then asked them all "would such a system be intelligent?" how many would say yes. The main problem I have with people stating it's not intelligent or conscious is I don't think we even have a good definition of either word that satisfies everyone. Philosophers have been trying (and failing) to elegantly define these things forever and everyone out here proclaiming they've got the definitive answer and this specific thing they're seeing doesn't fit under it.
- sophrosyne42 1mo ago
  The definition issue cuts both ways. It is just as much an issue for those insisting that LLMs are intelligent/conscious in some way.
  - ragequittah 1mo ago
    Agreed. All I can say is the conversations I have with AI and the things it's able to do for me are more useful than most any human I've come across. Whether that's 'intelligence' or not is a moot point to me. Consciousness is an interesting debate only because, similar to the natural world, if we declare something like "fish aren't conscious / don't feel pain" that then creates a real problem for the fish if we're wrong.

watch this and see if you think it has intelligence by the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8

by figers 1mo ago

watch this and see if you think it has intelligence by the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUicaho5k8

bayindirh 1mo ago

I also like this: https://laurentiugabriel.github.io/token-town/ https://laurentiugabriel.github.io/token-town/ It shows internals of an LLM nicely, simplified manner.

pyridines 1mo ago

This looks interesting, but would you mind saying a sentence or two about why before I commit to an hour-long video? It looks like it shows how they work internally, which is sort of a non sequitur. Brains also work mechanistically. I'm claiming that any system which is able to do what AIs do must necessarily have some sort of intelligence.

figers 1mo ago
fair reply to an hour video, Scott is just so good to hear his talk is better than I can explain it... go to 24 minutes and 07 seconds. it's statistically determining what the next word should be based on all the text it's been trained on. It's not intelligence and he shows what probability it puts on each word that it chooses, but also shows a lot of the other words it was thinking of using. In a later part he shows how it uses words that are not the highest probability (and you question why did it go this route, it's not more correct), but the user never sees this, they see what they think is the correct answer always... he also shows how context you feed it has a lot to do with what it returns... to the point he can get it to return the capital of France is Marseille, just by typing Marseille a bunch of times before the question. Human intelligence doesn't get confused like that. And it's not a "hallucination", it's just probability of the next token prediction based on the information it's been trained on and fed, it's not intelligence.
- rnd33 1mo ago
  Isn't this a case of missing the trees for the forest though? The human brain is not an LLM, and an LLM is not intelligent in the same way as a human brain. However, an LLM is a prediction machine, prediction IS at the very least one (or the most fundamental) element of intelligence. The brain most surely contains at least some kind of simulacrum of a prediction machine. How that prediction machine is used or wrapped is another matter. If I said to you: "Blue blue blue, the color of my car is red", would you have absolute confidence in your prediction that my car is red? Or would the way I phrased that sentence make you slightly uncertain, and wonder if there's some miscommunication going on here?
  - figers 1mo ago
    LLMs are awesome awesome tech! A lot of people seem to think it's human level intelligence.
- mitthrowaway2 1mo ago
  > Human intelligence doesn't get confused like that. We do; this is the premise of many children's riddle-games, like the one that goes: "What is white and rhymes with silk? > Milk. What is cheese made from? > Milk. > What do cows drink?" At which point the riddle-guesser is very likely to answer "milk" even though the correct answer is "water".
  - recursive 1mo ago
    I take issue with your "correct" answer. Q: Why do cows produce milk? A: Because calves (baby cows) drink it.
    - mitthrowaway2 1mo ago
      Yep, if the riddle asked "what do calves drink", then "milk" would definitely have been the correct answer.
      - 1mo ago

ragequittah 1mo ago

I wonder if you went back before we had any idea how the brain worked and talked to the smartest people about how neurons work (without giving away that it's a human brain) then asked them all "would such a system be intelligent?" how many would say yes. The main problem I have with people stating it's not intelligent or conscious is I don't think we even have a good definition of either word that satisfies everyone. Philosophers have been trying (and failing) to elegantly define these things forever and everyone out here proclaiming they've got the definitive answer and this specific thing they're seeing doesn't fit under it.

sophrosyne42 1mo ago
The definition issue cuts both ways. It is just as much an issue for those insisting that LLMs are intelligent/conscious in some way.
- ragequittah 1mo ago
  Agreed. All I can say is the conversations I have with AI and the things it's able to do for me are more useful than most any human I've come across. Whether that's 'intelligence' or not is a moot point to me. Consciousness is an interesting debate only because, similar to the natural world, if we declare something like "fish aren't conscious / don't feel pain" that then creates a real problem for the fish if we're wrong.