4 ms·

Then the camera isn’t destroyed? What’s the point?

by lazide 2mo ago

bob1029 2mo ago
It's an asymmetric situation. The cost of putting a trash bag over a camera that is in your local community is likely to be significantly lower than the cost of whomever installed it having to drive all the way back out there to remove it. You might only have to walk 100-200 feet with a step ladder. At some point, the cost can be pushed from an economic regime to a logistical one.
- dylan604 2mo ago
  It's also visible so that drivers will be able to see the trash bag covered camera. Some will probably just think it is litter blowing around that got itself stuck. But it would bring visibility to the protest movement that painting a lens would not. If juries do start indicting/convicting, it'll be a lesser punishment as no real harm was done to anything.
  - cucumber3732842 2mo ago
    It doesn't send the same political message, which is a huge part of the point here.
    - TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
      If the police have to send someone around uncovering cameras every few days, then that does send a political message.
      - lazide 2mo ago
        Yeah, ‘we won’t take this seriously enough to actually cause real damage’.
        EasyMark 2mo ago
        unless you're willing to do it, then I don't think you can ask others to do it. garbage bag = small dismeanor, sawsall = felony
        cucumber3732842 2mo ago
        You probably want the felony because it's less likely to stick, especially in the court of public opinion. Lawyer costs the same per hour either way.
        fragmede 2mo ago
        > Lawyer costs the same per hour either way. Sounds like someone who's never had to hire a lawyer before. They vary in cost and quality, and there's not a 1:1 correlation between the two. There's also many different areas, eg real estate vs corporate vs labor vs immigration vs criminal.
        TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
        I don't think prosecutors generally are very motivated to pursue tiny misdemeanor fines unless they have slam dunk evidence. As far as I can tell, the most likely charges for the garbage bag strategy where I'm located would be a maximum $500 fine, which is too low for most people to even bother with a lawyer. If they wanted any jail time, they would have to try to frame it as obstruction of justice, which is a stretch and would be difficult to get to stick with a jury.
        TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
        The goal isn't to cause real damage. It's to be a persistent thorn in their side and make the cameras more trouble than they're worth. There are a lot more of us than them. If 1% of Americans cover up 1 camera every six months and it takes 24 hours to notice and uncover the camera, then there would be approximately 0 functioning cameras at any given time. Think of it like the sit-ins or bus boycotts during the Civil Rights movement. That wasn't causing real damage, it was just a lot of people being very persistent about causing minor inconveniences. That wasn't the only tactic they used, but it was an important part of the movement's success.

Then the camera isn’t destroyed? What’s the point?

by lazide 2mo ago

Then the camera isn’t destroyed? What’s the point?

It's an asymmetric situation. The cost of putting a trash bag over a camera that is in your local community is likely to be significantly lower than the cost of whomever installed it having to drive all the way back out there to remove it. You might only have to walk 100-200 feet with a step ladder. At some point, the cost can be pushed from an economic regime to a logistical one.

dylan604 2mo ago
It's also visible so that drivers will be able to see the trash bag covered camera. Some will probably just think it is litter blowing around that got itself stuck. But it would bring visibility to the protest movement that painting a lens would not. If juries do start indicting/convicting, it'll be a lesser punishment as no real harm was done to anything.
- cucumber3732842 2mo ago
  It doesn't send the same political message, which is a huge part of the point here.
  - TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
    If the police have to send someone around uncovering cameras every few days, then that does send a political message.
    - lazide 2mo ago
      Yeah, ‘we won’t take this seriously enough to actually cause real damage’.
      - EasyMark 2mo ago
        unless you're willing to do it, then I don't think you can ask others to do it. garbage bag = small dismeanor, sawsall = felony
        cucumber3732842 2mo ago
        You probably want the felony because it's less likely to stick, especially in the court of public opinion. Lawyer costs the same per hour either way.
        fragmede 2mo ago
        > Lawyer costs the same per hour either way. Sounds like someone who's never had to hire a lawyer before. They vary in cost and quality, and there's not a 1:1 correlation between the two. There's also many different areas, eg real estate vs corporate vs labor vs immigration vs criminal.
        TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
        I don't think prosecutors generally are very motivated to pursue tiny misdemeanor fines unless they have slam dunk evidence. As far as I can tell, the most likely charges for the garbage bag strategy where I'm located would be a maximum $500 fine, which is too low for most people to even bother with a lawyer. If they wanted any jail time, they would have to try to frame it as obstruction of justice, which is a stretch and would be difficult to get to stick with a jury.
      - TheCoelacanth 2mo ago
        The goal isn't to cause real damage. It's to be a persistent thorn in their side and make the cameras more trouble than they're worth. There are a lot more of us than them. If 1% of Americans cover up 1 camera every six months and it takes 24 hours to notice and uncover the camera, then there would be approximately 0 functioning cameras at any given time. Think of it like the sit-ins or bus boycotts during the Civil Rights movement. That wasn't causing real damage, it was just a lot of people being very persistent about causing minor inconveniences. That wasn't the only tactic they used, but it was an important part of the movement's success.