5 ms·

>Believe it or not, high income earners in other parts of the world are very happy to pay "crazy high" taxes. >Those countries provide a hell of a lot to their

by tmh88j 14y ago

>Believe it or not, high income earners in other parts of the world are very happy to pay "crazy high" taxes. >Those countries provide a hell of a lot to their citizens, and the citizens are happy to pay. When you have a $600k per year income, those services aren't necessarily as valuable as they are to someone who makes $60k per year. Seems that I've upset some people. Have you forgotten that international business does exist?

enraged_camel 14y ago
This is extremely short-sighted. While the person themselves may not directly benefit from those services, they benefit from the fact that those around them do. For example, if we assume that the $600k is an employer (pretty common), then having employees who have received good public education is good for their business.
- tmh88j 14y ago
  I could have business operations in France but it doesn't mean I have to live there.
purplelobster 14y ago
Don't know if this is your opinion or if you're just stating a fact about others, but that is some selfish social pariah thinking right there. "Fuck you, I've got mine". Unfortunately, that's what seems to go through many rich people's minds.
- zura 14y ago
  Well, in your previous comment, you pointed out that paying high taxes is not an altruism, but just a deal/agreement with your government. So, at some stage you might be comfortable with the conditions agreed, but you might also get to another stage of your life, when it is not comfortable anymore - thus you start seeking better deals. There is nothing bad or evil in this.
  - netrus 14y ago
    Some people attribute part of their success to the opportunities a society has offered them, and feel an obligation to share and give back what they received in the first place.
    - ericd 14y ago
      Unfortunately, the US doesn't really do that in very visible ways for people in the middle class and up besides offering a good environment for business, and barely seems to get the job done for poor people, which raises the question for many of what people are actually paying for. I feel an obligation, but much of the reasoning is abstract.
    - zura 14y ago
      Sure, it is not about giving back vs not giving back - it is about _amount_ you give back. For some people it is 20% and for others - 75%.
  - tomflack 14y ago
    The Australian government is paying for my education in the manner described above - when I graduate and hopefully get a well paying job I will attribute part of my success to society helping me out with my education. And be more than happy to pay high taxes.
cgag 14y ago
It would seem to me that when you make 600k a year, paying more taxes isn't as painful either.
- gyardley 14y ago
  Anecdotally, the years I've been in this situation I've found it extremely painful - way more painful than the years I make $40K or so. I'm sure there's a threshold beyond which you just don't care, when you already have enough money to do everything you could possibly want, but whenever I've written a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars to the government I think "well, that probably would've paid for the college education of one of my kids" or "well, invested prudently that would've let me retire years earlier." I've also thought "huh, I'm getting exactly the same services as everybody else but paying ridiculous amounts of money for them." Neither's a particularly good feeling.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    Yes, you noticed that the government is not a free market. And sustainable societies have moral hazards. And if you really want to live in true freedom, where freedom to knock down the house around you is not specially excepted under some theory of Objetivist morality, good luck finding off the hordes.
    - gyardley 14y ago
      Easy, tiger. I might find paying large amounts of taxes painful, but that doesn't automatically imply I'm an Ayn Rand fan, don't see the need for some form of social safety net, and don't get why a progressive tax system is an unfortunate necessity.
  - purplelobster 14y ago
    Think of it like this: when you were born, the government made a huge investment in you by providing you with healthcare so you don't die, school so that you can educate yourself, roads so you can get to work etc. Now you made a successful business using this investment from the government, but they also own XX% of your business, it's not entirely yours. This is an analogy but I think it holds very true. Sure it hurts to pay back to your investors, but without them you'd never have reached the point at where you are today. Escaping from the responsibility of paying back is immoral in my opinion, but unfortunately it's also good business in this world.
inerte 14y ago
Security so the poor won't rob you, flat roads to drive your Ferrari, healthy coughs from the homeless. Taxes have its uses.
rorrr 14y ago
Try getting a serious sickness in the US and watch your $600K melt away, watch your insurance company dropping you, or refusing to cover you because you forgot to mention some minor thing when you signed up. Intestine transplant costs more than $1 million. Heart transplant - $700-800K. Bone marrow transplant - $600-700K.
- tmh88j 14y ago
  When did non-government sponsored benefits equate to no health care at all?...especially if you're making over half a million dollars per year.
  - grecy 14y ago
    When your insurance company drops you.
    - sp332 14y ago
      If you make half a million a year, you have options for paying for services yourself instead of relying on someone else (like an insurance company) to pay it for you. You can just, you know, buy healthcare.
      - jw_ 14y ago
        Note that some of the life-saving operations listed above a) cost significantly more than $500k and b) are related to ailments that will likely stop you from working on AwesomeApply.io or whatever it is for a potentially indefinite period of time.
- wmboy 14y ago
  This is why I think free healthcare actually promotes entrepreneurship. I have a family and run my own business in New Zealand and have no concerns over healthcare as it'll all be covered by the government.
podperson 14y ago
How much is not having your money stolen from you by an angry mob worth? Seems to me like the rich are doing their best to recreate the jacquerie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie

by tmh88j 14y ago

enraged_camel 14y ago

This is extremely short-sighted. While the person themselves may not directly benefit from those services, they benefit from the fact that those around them do. For example, if we assume that the $600k is an employer (pretty common), then having employees who have received good public education is good for their business.

tmh88j 14y ago
I could have business operations in France but it doesn't mean I have to live there.

purplelobster 14y ago

Don't know if this is your opinion or if you're just stating a fact about others, but that is some selfish social pariah thinking right there. "Fuck you, I've got mine". Unfortunately, that's what seems to go through many rich people's minds.

zura 14y ago
Well, in your previous comment, you pointed out that paying high taxes is not an altruism, but just a deal/agreement with your government. So, at some stage you might be comfortable with the conditions agreed, but you might also get to another stage of your life, when it is not comfortable anymore - thus you start seeking better deals. There is nothing bad or evil in this.
- netrus 14y ago
  Some people attribute part of their success to the opportunities a society has offered them, and feel an obligation to share and give back what they received in the first place.
  - ericd 14y ago
    Unfortunately, the US doesn't really do that in very visible ways for people in the middle class and up besides offering a good environment for business, and barely seems to get the job done for poor people, which raises the question for many of what people are actually paying for. I feel an obligation, but much of the reasoning is abstract.
  - zura 14y ago
    Sure, it is not about giving back vs not giving back - it is about _amount_ you give back. For some people it is 20% and for others - 75%.
- tomflack 14y ago
  The Australian government is paying for my education in the manner described above - when I graduate and hopefully get a well paying job I will attribute part of my success to society helping me out with my education. And be more than happy to pay high taxes.

cgag 14y ago

It would seem to me that when you make 600k a year, paying more taxes isn't as painful either.

gyardley 14y ago
Anecdotally, the years I've been in this situation I've found it extremely painful - way more painful than the years I make $40K or so. I'm sure there's a threshold beyond which you just don't care, when you already have enough money to do everything you could possibly want, but whenever I've written a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars to the government I think "well, that probably would've paid for the college education of one of my kids" or "well, invested prudently that would've let me retire years earlier." I've also thought "huh, I'm getting exactly the same services as everybody else but paying ridiculous amounts of money for them." Neither's a particularly good feeling.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Yes, you noticed that the government is not a free market. And sustainable societies have moral hazards. And if you really want to live in true freedom, where freedom to knock down the house around you is not specially excepted under some theory of Objetivist morality, good luck finding off the hordes.
  - gyardley 14y ago
    Easy, tiger. I might find paying large amounts of taxes painful, but that doesn't automatically imply I'm an Ayn Rand fan, don't see the need for some form of social safety net, and don't get why a progressive tax system is an unfortunate necessity.
- purplelobster 14y ago
  Think of it like this: when you were born, the government made a huge investment in you by providing you with healthcare so you don't die, school so that you can educate yourself, roads so you can get to work etc. Now you made a successful business using this investment from the government, but they also own XX% of your business, it's not entirely yours. This is an analogy but I think it holds very true. Sure it hurts to pay back to your investors, but without them you'd never have reached the point at where you are today. Escaping from the responsibility of paying back is immoral in my opinion, but unfortunately it's also good business in this world.

inerte 14y ago

Security so the poor won't rob you, flat roads to drive your Ferrari, healthy coughs from the homeless. Taxes have its uses.

rorrr 14y ago

Try getting a serious sickness in the US and watch your $600K melt away, watch your insurance company dropping you, or refusing to cover you because you forgot to mention some minor thing when you signed up. Intestine transplant costs more than $1 million. Heart transplant - $700-800K. Bone marrow transplant - $600-700K.

tmh88j 14y ago
When did non-government sponsored benefits equate to no health care at all?...especially if you're making over half a million dollars per year.
- grecy 14y ago
  When your insurance company drops you.
  - sp332 14y ago
    If you make half a million a year, you have options for paying for services yourself instead of relying on someone else (like an insurance company) to pay it for you. You can just, you know, buy healthcare.
    - jw_ 14y ago
      Note that some of the life-saving operations listed above a) cost significantly more than $500k and b) are related to ailments that will likely stop you from working on AwesomeApply.io or whatever it is for a potentially indefinite period of time.
wmboy 14y ago
This is why I think free healthcare actually promotes entrepreneurship. I have a family and run my own business in New Zealand and have no concerns over healthcare as it'll all be covered by the government.

podperson 14y ago

How much is not having your money stolen from you by an angry mob worth? Seems to me like the rich are doing their best to recreate the jacquerie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie