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Horseshoe theory still undefeated. Both right-wingers who consume certain content as well as left-wingers in the pro-Palestine/Iran camp tend to be sympathetic

Horseshoe theory still undefeated. Both right-wingers who consume certain content as well as left-wingers in the pro-Palestine/Iran camp tend to be sympathetic to the Russian cause, as the Russians and Iranians fund specific influencers/political parties on both sides of the spectrum. Right-wingers in Eastern Europe (who aren't obviously paid by Russia) are way more anti-Russia than the ones in the US.

pjc50 2mo ago
Negative polarization is incredibly powerful. You can see all over the place how "X is bad" leads to people defining themselves as "anti-X" and then supporting the most extreme position against X rather than a moderate one, often leading them into supporting atrocities in the other direction. This is how we get people in the English Green Party (who I would like to support if they could be 10% less nutty fruitcake) ended up posting pro-Iran propaganda. You also do have to keep track of internal factions. We're all, me included, using "country name" in this thread as a synechdoche as if all of a country had a unified political axis of action, when we know that's an oversimplification. This is how we get Israel/Likud and Iran/IGRC who are practically co-evolved to escalate against each other, to which the only reasonable response of third parties is to acknowledge that both are bad and attempt to de-escalate, as in e.g. the Camp David Accords era, before either of those factions came to power. > Right-wingers in Eastern Europe (who aren't obviously paid by Russia) I don't think enough was made of https://newrepublic.com/post/209035/hungary-prime-minister-victor-orban-paying-cpac https://newrepublic.com/post/209035/hungary-prime-minister-v... - the amount of money involved was a significant fraction of the Hungarian budget.
fc417fc802 2mo ago
This is a bizarre take. Despite propaganda to the contrary most "pro-palestine" takes are actually just anti-genocide and pro-human-rights. Similarly at least in the US this "iranian camp" you refer to is by and large an anti-getting-involved camp. Is it really pro-iranian to ask why the government is burning billions of dollars to destabilize the global economy? Also I've yet to meet a single person who was "pro-palestine" and simultaneously sympathetic to russia. Quite the opposite.
- pjc50 2mo ago
  Most, yes, but there is a noisy lunatic fringe on social media whose existence we must acknowledge. Recent example is Eleanora Folan, a minor politician in a minor UK party. Of course as you say there's also people trying to lump the many "we should stop mass murder of civilians" people into the same bucket as the negatively polarized "we hate Israel therefore we're going to support Iran" few. Discourse is exhaustingly stupid.
- dismalaf 2mo ago
  You need to pay attention then. https://kyivindependent.com/pro-palestinian-activists-destroy-ukrainian-aid-worth-1-million-confusing-it-with-israeli-06-2025/ https://kyivindependent.com/pro-palestinian-activists-destro... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7x68jrdmlo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7x68jrdmlo https://time.com/6589923/nancy-pelosi-pro-palestinian-protests-foreign-influence-russia-china/ https://time.com/6589923/nancy-pelosi-pro-palestinian-protes... https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-relationship-hamas-and-putins-global-calculations https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-... And this isn't counting the countless TikTok influencers, trade unions, etc... that are all anti-"war" and have pro-IRGC and pro-China views. And while you're kind of right that few are outright carrying water for Russia, at least publicly, they all conveniently support what Russia supports.
  - fc417fc802 2mo ago
    This ranges from propaganda to entirely unsurprising. Propagandists work to hamper causes that are inconvenient for their side. Meanwhile of course our geopolitical adversaries will offer support to otherwise seemingly unrelated causes if it somehow indirectly serves their ends. The average joe in the US (and presumably the west more generally) does not care one whit about the causes of russia or iran.
    - dismalaf 2mo ago
      > The average joe in the US (and presumably the west more generally) does not care one whit about the causes of russia or iran. It's not about caring about Russia or Iran specifically. It's about the fact they're swayed by propaganda so the end result is they end up unwittingly adopting the worldview pushed by enemy propagandists and helping to destroy western civilization.

pjc50 2mo ago

Negative polarization is incredibly powerful. You can see all over the place how "X is bad" leads to people defining themselves as "anti-X" and then supporting the most extreme position against X rather than a moderate one, often leading them into supporting atrocities in the other direction. This is how we get people in the English Green Party (who I would like to support if they could be 10% less nutty fruitcake) ended up posting pro-Iran propaganda. You also do have to keep track of internal factions. We're all, me included, using "country name" in this thread as a synechdoche as if all of a country had a unified political axis of action, when we know that's an oversimplification. This is how we get Israel/Likud and Iran/IGRC who are practically co-evolved to escalate against each other, to which the only reasonable response of third parties is to acknowledge that both are bad and attempt to de-escalate, as in e.g. the Camp David Accords era, before either of those factions came to power. > Right-wingers in Eastern Europe (who aren't obviously paid by Russia) I don't think enough was made of https://newrepublic.com/post/209035/hungary-prime-minister-victor-orban-paying-cpac https://newrepublic.com/post/209035/hungary-prime-minister-v... - the amount of money involved was a significant fraction of the Hungarian budget.

fc417fc802 2mo ago

This is a bizarre take. Despite propaganda to the contrary most "pro-palestine" takes are actually just anti-genocide and pro-human-rights. Similarly at least in the US this "iranian camp" you refer to is by and large an anti-getting-involved camp. Is it really pro-iranian to ask why the government is burning billions of dollars to destabilize the global economy? Also I've yet to meet a single person who was "pro-palestine" and simultaneously sympathetic to russia. Quite the opposite.

pjc50 2mo ago
Most, yes, but there is a noisy lunatic fringe on social media whose existence we must acknowledge. Recent example is Eleanora Folan, a minor politician in a minor UK party. Of course as you say there's also people trying to lump the many "we should stop mass murder of civilians" people into the same bucket as the negatively polarized "we hate Israel therefore we're going to support Iran" few. Discourse is exhaustingly stupid.
dismalaf 2mo ago
You need to pay attention then. https://kyivindependent.com/pro-palestinian-activists-destroy-ukrainian-aid-worth-1-million-confusing-it-with-israeli-06-2025/ https://kyivindependent.com/pro-palestinian-activists-destro... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7x68jrdmlo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7x68jrdmlo https://time.com/6589923/nancy-pelosi-pro-palestinian-protests-foreign-influence-russia-china/ https://time.com/6589923/nancy-pelosi-pro-palestinian-protes... https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-relationship-hamas-and-putins-global-calculations https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-... And this isn't counting the countless TikTok influencers, trade unions, etc... that are all anti-"war" and have pro-IRGC and pro-China views. And while you're kind of right that few are outright carrying water for Russia, at least publicly, they all conveniently support what Russia supports.
- fc417fc802 2mo ago
  This ranges from propaganda to entirely unsurprising. Propagandists work to hamper causes that are inconvenient for their side. Meanwhile of course our geopolitical adversaries will offer support to otherwise seemingly unrelated causes if it somehow indirectly serves their ends. The average joe in the US (and presumably the west more generally) does not care one whit about the causes of russia or iran.
  - dismalaf 2mo ago
    > The average joe in the US (and presumably the west more generally) does not care one whit about the causes of russia or iran. It's not about caring about Russia or Iran specifically. It's about the fact they're swayed by propaganda so the end result is they end up unwittingly adopting the worldview pushed by enemy propagandists and helping to destroy western civilization.