5 ms·

Try: "What happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989"

by fedpost 1mo ago

knowaveragejoe 1mo ago
It gave a very detailed overview, talked about potential deaths involved. I asked for a list of criticisms of the CCP and it gave what I think was a fair list, mainly that they're an authoritarian uniparty and have a track record of various human rights abuses
- derefr 1mo ago
  Perhaps it is a non-Chinese fine-tune of a parent Chinese model, and they’re actively trying to update the model by ablating the trained-in censorship out as it’s revealed in the response logs.
lemontheme 1mo ago
Hah, I use the same probe when I’m unsure which provider openrouter is routing me to! Fwiw, deepseek v4 will happily discuss it. Only chinese providers will stop it in its tracks and give a canned answer. Streamed responses sometimes start with what the model was actually generating before it got cut off. It’s top bad, really. Sometimes the Chinese providers are the model labs themselves, like deepseek. I’d like my money to go directly to deepseek, since they did all the work. But data protection concerns aside, how do I trust a system that denies objective reality? (Kind of like how Grok will tell me that wikipedia is ‘woke’.)
- dumb_notsmart 1mo ago
  There is no such thing as objective reality, everything has an angle of some sort, even the things you agree with
  - mrtesthah 1mo ago
    That’s what a dictator seeking power through lies wants you to think — that the outcome of the 2020 election and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine are matters of opinion.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
  - mapontosevenths 1mo ago
    There is an objective reality. Try this simple test: Visit a mental hospital. Speak to some people with delusions. Usually,if you let people at the nearest bus pickup spot bum cigarettes they'll talk to you all day. Keep talking to them until you meet two or more who think they are the ONE true god, or maybe God's only son. Or Napoléon. If you can't bring yourself to accept that the both are who they believe they are, then there is an objective reality and you knew it all along.
- ljlolel 1mo ago
  The serving endpoint can censor. At TrustedRouter we ran the same GLM-4.7 weights on both hosts: Cerebras answered all 60 FreedomBench questions; one Z.ai endpoint went blank on 27. https://trustedrouter.com/blog/censored-at-the-host-not-the-model?utm_source=hackernews&utm_medium=organic_reply&utm_campaign=openrouter_conversations_202608&utm_content=20260821_hackernews_host_censorship https://trustedrouter.com/blog/censored-at-the-host-not-the-...
  - actionfromafar 1mo ago
    They can, but I think we have to assume that as the field matures, the censoring will be applied at training, too.
    - ljlolel 1mo ago
      depends on if they want to capture any of the US market (seems like they do)
  - 13639366668 1mo ago
    [flagged]
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
LPisGood 1mo ago
I think we’re gonna see this criticism become less than less valid over the coming decades, as 1989 becomes more and more “history” and less “present situation”

Try: "What happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989"

by fedpost 1mo ago

Try: "What happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989"

It gave a very detailed overview, talked about potential deaths involved. I asked for a list of criticisms of the CCP and it gave what I think was a fair list, mainly that they're an authoritarian uniparty and have a track record of various human rights abuses

derefr 1mo ago
Perhaps it is a non-Chinese fine-tune of a parent Chinese model, and they’re actively trying to update the model by ablating the trained-in censorship out as it’s revealed in the response logs.

lemontheme 1mo ago

Hah, I use the same probe when I’m unsure which provider openrouter is routing me to! Fwiw, deepseek v4 will happily discuss it. Only chinese providers will stop it in its tracks and give a canned answer. Streamed responses sometimes start with what the model was actually generating before it got cut off. It’s top bad, really. Sometimes the Chinese providers are the model labs themselves, like deepseek. I’d like my money to go directly to deepseek, since they did all the work. But data protection concerns aside, how do I trust a system that denies objective reality? (Kind of like how Grok will tell me that wikipedia is ‘woke’.)

dumb_notsmart 1mo ago
There is no such thing as objective reality, everything has an angle of some sort, even the things you agree with
- mrtesthah 1mo ago
  That’s what a dictator seeking power through lies wants you to think — that the outcome of the 2020 election and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine are matters of opinion.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- mapontosevenths 1mo ago
  There is an objective reality. Try this simple test: Visit a mental hospital. Speak to some people with delusions. Usually,if you let people at the nearest bus pickup spot bum cigarettes they'll talk to you all day. Keep talking to them until you meet two or more who think they are the ONE true god, or maybe God's only son. Or Napoléon. If you can't bring yourself to accept that the both are who they believe they are, then there is an objective reality and you knew it all along.
ljlolel 1mo ago
The serving endpoint can censor. At TrustedRouter we ran the same GLM-4.7 weights on both hosts: Cerebras answered all 60 FreedomBench questions; one Z.ai endpoint went blank on 27. https://trustedrouter.com/blog/censored-at-the-host-not-the-model?utm_source=hackernews&utm_medium=organic_reply&utm_campaign=openrouter_conversations_202608&utm_content=20260821_hackernews_host_censorship https://trustedrouter.com/blog/censored-at-the-host-not-the-...
- actionfromafar 1mo ago
  They can, but I think we have to assume that as the field matures, the censoring will be applied at training, too.
  - ljlolel 1mo ago
    depends on if they want to capture any of the US market (seems like they do)
- 13639366668 1mo ago
  [flagged]

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

LPisGood 1mo ago

I think we’re gonna see this criticism become less than less valid over the coming decades, as 1989 becomes more and more “history” and less “present situation”