3 ms·

Knowledge cannot be "stolen"

sebastiennight 2mo ago
You wrote your house's security code on a Post-It note. Somebody came in as a houseparty guest and located the note, and discretely copied it onto their hand to get access to the house during your next vacation. Which verb would describe their knowledge of this security code?
- gruez 2mo ago
  "eavesdropped"? "spied"? Whatever it is, slapping "steal" on it because what was done is wrong, and stealing is wrong, is the same sloppy logic that the copyright lobby used in the 80s/90s.
  - Planktonne 2mo ago
    If 'steal' doesn't fit, then neither do 'eavesdrop' or 'spied'.
- mitaphane 2mo ago
  learned
  - sebastiennight 2mo ago
    After a bit of thinking, I agree that "learned" is the most appropriate. I stand corrected.
- koolala 2mo ago
  The crime there is using that knowledge illegally to break in.
- dbetteridge 2mo ago
  Obtained, read, viewed, learned, discovered. The knowledge wasn't obtained illegally or illicitly, immorally perhaps. Illegal entry/trespass is a crime regardless of the method used however. In your analogy copying the code (online content) isn't necessarily illegal, however using that knowledge without compensation, permission or attribution may be a crime (depending on copyright law, judges rulings etc).
  - sebastiennight 2mo ago
    This point makes sense to me. I agree with "learned" and "discovered".
  - simonsan 2mo ago
    https://blog.curiousquail.com/im-upset-again-about-a-co-creator-of-rss-being-prosecuted-for-something-meta-is-doing-with-little-consequence/ https://blog.curiousquail.com/im-upset-again-about-a-co-crea... What about using torrents to acquire that content?
    - dbetteridge 2mo ago
      Torrents are legal? Seeding is often considered the actual point of infringement, aka sharing copyrighted material without the right licence. I should note I suppose that I don't agree with companies using artists or developers hard work for their own financial gain without compensation, whatever form that may take. The problem as usual is the availability of legal loopholes when you have a team of lawyers and near infinite money.
      - dgellow 2mo ago
        It really depends the country, downloading a Hollywood movie via torrent is itself illegal in a lot of countries. The only exception I’m aware of is Switzerland
        dbetteridge 2mo ago
        You're right I was thinking of civil vs criminal penalties. Personal downloading is generally only a civil violation, requiring the rights holder to sue you for reparations.
sebastiennight 2mo ago
What about art?
harimau777 2mo ago
I think that you might be taking "knowledge" too literally. As I read it, the parent's post was using "knowledge" poetically for the various works that AI companies stole.
dredmorbius 2mo ago
The more charitable interpretation would be "knowledge embodied in copyrighted works collected and duplicated without grant of rights". <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48821172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48821172>

You wrote your house's security code on a Post-It note. Somebody came in as a houseparty guest and located the note, and discretely copied it onto their hand to get access to the house during your next vacation. Which verb would describe their knowledge of this security code?

gruez 2mo ago
"eavesdropped"? "spied"? Whatever it is, slapping "steal" on it because what was done is wrong, and stealing is wrong, is the same sloppy logic that the copyright lobby used in the 80s/90s.
- Planktonne 2mo ago
  If 'steal' doesn't fit, then neither do 'eavesdrop' or 'spied'.
mitaphane 2mo ago
learned
- sebastiennight 2mo ago
  After a bit of thinking, I agree that "learned" is the most appropriate. I stand corrected.
koolala 2mo ago
The crime there is using that knowledge illegally to break in.
dbetteridge 2mo ago
Obtained, read, viewed, learned, discovered. The knowledge wasn't obtained illegally or illicitly, immorally perhaps. Illegal entry/trespass is a crime regardless of the method used however. In your analogy copying the code (online content) isn't necessarily illegal, however using that knowledge without compensation, permission or attribution may be a crime (depending on copyright law, judges rulings etc).
- sebastiennight 2mo ago
  This point makes sense to me. I agree with "learned" and "discovered".
- simonsan 2mo ago
  https://blog.curiousquail.com/im-upset-again-about-a-co-creator-of-rss-being-prosecuted-for-something-meta-is-doing-with-little-consequence/ https://blog.curiousquail.com/im-upset-again-about-a-co-crea... What about using torrents to acquire that content?
  - dbetteridge 2mo ago
    Torrents are legal? Seeding is often considered the actual point of infringement, aka sharing copyrighted material without the right licence. I should note I suppose that I don't agree with companies using artists or developers hard work for their own financial gain without compensation, whatever form that may take. The problem as usual is the availability of legal loopholes when you have a team of lawyers and near infinite money.
    - dgellow 2mo ago
      It really depends the country, downloading a Hollywood movie via torrent is itself illegal in a lot of countries. The only exception I’m aware of is Switzerland
      - dbetteridge 2mo ago
        You're right I was thinking of civil vs criminal penalties. Personal downloading is generally only a civil violation, requiring the rights holder to sue you for reparations.

sebastiennight 2mo ago

What about art?

harimau777 2mo ago

I think that you might be taking "knowledge" too literally. As I read it, the parent's post was using "knowledge" poetically for the various works that AI companies stole.

dredmorbius 2mo ago

The more charitable interpretation would be "knowledge embodied in copyrighted works collected and duplicated without grant of rights". <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48821172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48821172>