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I don't think the goal of being a true Python superset ever existed. Given that there are so many failed attempts to optimise arbitrary Python code, it was dub

by JBits 1mo ago

I don't think the goal of being a true Python superset ever existed. Given that there are so many failed attempts to optimise arbitrary Python code, it was dubious from the start. Furthermore, the documentation completely ignored these challenges and made it clear that Mojo's goal was to compile to MLIR in order to write kernels for machine learning. The first example of Mojo code was a low level matrix multiplication kernel taking advantage of fancy compilation features and the documentation advertised pointers inspired by Rust's move semantics, neither of which are typically considered friendly or relevant to high level programmers.

giancarlostoro 1mo ago
It was in their roadmap: https://forum.modular.com/t/mojo-as-a-python-superset/2490 https://forum.modular.com/t/mojo-as-a-python-superset/2490
- JBits 1mo ago
  I think it was there for marketing purposes and that there was little actual intention to work on it. From the roadmap: >Mojo may or may not evolve into a full superset of Python, and it's okay if it doesn't.
  - giancarlostoro 1mo ago
    That's a bold claim, I would be surprised if that were why they made the decision, there's other Python-like languages that don't need to pretend to be a superset to be successful.
    - JBits 1mo ago
      Being a superset of Python may not be necessary to be successful, but perhaps non-committally proposing it was necessary for Modular to win the funding they wanted. While lots of people indirectly run GPU kernels with PyTorch, I think the number of people wanting to write their own kernels is considerably smaller and that this niche already has established players (plenty of whom even already build on top of MLIR), making Mojo's most obvious use case difficult to sell.
mastermage 1mo ago
it definetely existed and was one of the major things why I was interested in it. I wished I could have used this to slowly migrate away from Python codes in Physics. But alas they dropped the goal and for me the ball with the decision to stop following this. I will probably not write mojo code when I could use Rust or Julia instead, which are more aligned with my necessities.

by JBits 1mo ago

giancarlostoro 1mo ago

It was in their roadmap: https://forum.modular.com/t/mojo-as-a-python-superset/2490 https://forum.modular.com/t/mojo-as-a-python-superset/2490

JBits 1mo ago
I think it was there for marketing purposes and that there was little actual intention to work on it. From the roadmap: >Mojo may or may not evolve into a full superset of Python, and it's okay if it doesn't.
- giancarlostoro 1mo ago
  That's a bold claim, I would be surprised if that were why they made the decision, there's other Python-like languages that don't need to pretend to be a superset to be successful.
  - JBits 1mo ago
    Being a superset of Python may not be necessary to be successful, but perhaps non-committally proposing it was necessary for Modular to win the funding they wanted. While lots of people indirectly run GPU kernels with PyTorch, I think the number of people wanting to write their own kernels is considerably smaller and that this niche already has established players (plenty of whom even already build on top of MLIR), making Mojo's most obvious use case difficult to sell.

mastermage 1mo ago

it definetely existed and was one of the major things why I was interested in it. I wished I could have used this to slowly migrate away from Python codes in Physics. But alas they dropped the goal and for me the ball with the decision to stop following this. I will probably not write mojo code when I could use Rust or Julia instead, which are more aligned with my necessities.