7 ms·

The solar-powered bike-car thingy we’ve all been waiting for

39 points by ph0rque 14y ago

davidw 14y ago
Looks kind of like a Piaggio Ape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape (pronounced AH-pay).
- fernly 14y ago
  Ooh that's unfortunate... if you've spent any time in Italia you've seen the ah-pay, probably been stuck in traffic behind one. They are as slow as they are ugly and smoke and stink like the outskirts of Mordor. The less this thing reminds anyone of an Ape, the better for it.
nacker 14y ago
It just needs one more ingredient to make it a must buy for its target market: Hemp! Introducing Kestrel, The First Road-Ready Car Built Out Of Hemp http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-02/introducing-first-road-ready-hemp-mobile http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-02/introducing-first...
stcredzero 14y ago
Houston is ver hot, but very flat. I wonder if this would work with a cooler chest air conditioner? It would be added weight, but like I said, there's few hills in Houston.
mchusma 14y ago
Any thoughts on the enclosure? It seems to me that making it enclosed defeats some of the most significant benefits to a bicycle: compactness. Once something gets over the "too big for a bike rack or my apartment" threshold, you run into parking problems. Also, with its size, you can't go around traffic. Despite showing this on sidewalks, I would anticipate that you in practice couldn't do it that often. It would be highly irritating to me as a pedestrian. So I do love it because it is cheap & electric. I like that because it is so large and the range is short enough to be concerning, plugging it in would be a pain and the solar cells solve that. I don't love it because it is not a bicycle replacement, it is a car replacement with short range and little space. This is because expensive enough to be a considered purchase (the price of a 2005 Hyundai Elantra) and large enough that it needs identical parking/road space. The niche for this is seems to be people in suburban areas who live within a few miles of frequent destinations and want to bike but not really. I love that people are trying to reinvent transportation, and if this is a really niche cool thing, that's great. I would be curious to see if anyone thinks that could have broad appeal.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  It can't even do 25mph. That's a deal breaker for most car users, especially when it costs as much as a used car. This idea feels more like "How far can we extend a bicycle?" than "How can we make a smaller, cheaper, better way for people to transport themselves?"
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    At 25mph, it would fill the same sort of niche that golf carts fill in some retirement communities. Although, there are compelling arguments for reorganizing large parts of metropolitan areas with 25mph streets. Apparently, traffic fatalities go down and pedestrian traffic goes up. > I don't love it because it is not a bicycle replacement, it is a car replacement with short range and little space. It is not a replacement for car or bicycle. It's an attempt at an intermediate niche.
  - benajnim 14y ago
    This is unfortunately a federal restriction on electrically assisted bicycles. The motor cuts off at 20 mph, the driver can peddle faster than this but the electric assist is only for the low speed range.
- at-fates-hands 14y ago
  " It seems to me that making it enclosed defeats some of the most significant benefits to a bicycle: compactness. Once something gets over the "too big for a bike rack or my apartment" threshold, you run into parking problems" This was my first thought. Also, if you can't ride on the sidewalk, it's way too big and slow to be in normal traffic. I'm sure it would irk the hell out of people driving cars as well. A lose/lose proposition if you ask me.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  The rendering on the original article doesn't convey it well, but it is compact. It's about as wide as a football player's shoulders. The enclosure makes it look a lot wider than a person on a normal bicycle, but it really isn't much different. So this is actually an advantage: one of the problems with bicycles is that car drivers underestimate just how wide a person on a bicycle really is and how much room they need. The wheels might be skinny, but add a body and handlebars, and it becomes much wider.
Shivetya 14y ago
First, who is this we you are talking about. Having watched the videos, I would not crash it. I could get no idea of stopping power and the view from inside doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy that a front on collision will be fun. Throw in the fact that NVH levels are very high with this item. I really see it was one of those obscure solutions that hints at the possibilities but suffers too many compromises to be viable.
- sosuke 14y ago
  The first thing I looked for was the a safety cage or something, just a whole lotta fiberglass.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  "I would not crash it." I don't think you're meant to.
R_Edward 14y ago
Living in Minneapolis/St. Paul, I'm thinking this is not likely to catch on here. 4-5 months out of the year, the roads are icy; the air is cold, limiting the effectiveness of the battery; and the daylight hours are short. Maybe it'll catch on in the more temperate states.
- benajnim 14y ago
  There are a surprising number of folks in the metro who do bicycle on even the most brutal winter days. Typically armament includes studded tires and with a "cabin" it would greatly cut down on the chill from the wind. If anything, I think it would make cycling in colder weather more accessible to more people. Also, keeping the battery indoors before going on a ride helps prevent the "sag" in voltage experience when a battery does get cold. It could also be kept in an insulated container and even heated with a heating element similar to an electric blanket.
  - R_Edward 14y ago
    Oh, I've no doubt that some of the hard-core cyclists would latch on to it--eliminating the wind chill effect would be a big score over riding on a naked bike, but hoi polloi, the people with a short commute who could switch to something like this without too much sacrifice, are going to think twice about it.
Toenex 14y ago
Frankly I wasn't expecting the future to look like a French provincial postal delivery vehicle from 1947.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Heh, 750 watt motor is a 1HP btw, back in Junior High I convinced my dad to let me buy a 'mini-bike' with a 1.5HP Briggs&Stratton motor, then later we "upgraded" it to a 5HP motor which involved a small bit of custom welding on the frame and an upgraded centrifugal clutch. It was a blast for driving around in the desert but not really a 'utility' vehicle. That said, if they put a Lemco LEM-200 [1] (Peak power 7.8kW aka 10hp and I put two of them in my 220lb Battlebot for about 20hp of fun) into it you could have something. [1] http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=motors-and-generators-2 http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=motors-and-generators-2
brk 14y ago
This looks even LESS practical than a Segway, and we saw how that went.
bradleyland 14y ago
The problem with these types of vehicles is that there's nowhere (safe) to ride/drive them. You're not going to be able to ride this on a sidewalk, because it's illegal in most places, so you're forced to ride on the shoulder. A bicycle, with its inline wheels, fits nicely on a shoulder. With this, you're stuck on the shoulder, and you don't exactly fit well. The physics of automobile accidents are immutable. If you get in to a collision with even a sub-compact car while driving this thing, you're dead or very seriously injured. Accidents involving cars and bicycles, of course, occur, but you have a narrow profile and you're out in the open, so you can bail pretty easily. In this thing, you're more like a motor-vehicle. Other drivers will inevitably confuse you for a motor-vehicle, and in some places, local laws will consider this some type of motor-vehicle. Creating a new class of transportation is as much about the infrastructure as it is the product itself.
- oftenwrong 14y ago
  Drive in a lane, not on the shoulder.
  - Wingman4l7 14y ago
    It's "limited to 20 mph" (this somehow lets it be classed as a bicycle, a claim of which I am dubious). Even a 50cc scooter goes faster than that.
  - bradleyland 14y ago
    I see this all the time with scooters. They're motor-vehicles. Riders are supposed to drive in the lane, but here's the rub: they don't. I see it all the time. Scooter drivers hug the edge of the road. They do so at their own peril. The drivers behind them are confused. Does the scooter want them to pass? Is it even legal to pass right now; there's a double-yellow (no passing in the US) line on the road? Let's accept the argument here and say that drivers of this vehicle do drive in a lane. They are, at that point, putting themselves on equal footing with other drivers. Driving 20 MPH on just about any street where the speed limit is above 25 MPH is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't simply tell other drivers that they're allowed to and expect them not to be frustrated. Frustration leads to aggressive driving, and aggressive driving leads to accidents. Accidents are highest when vehicles traveling at different speeds encounter each other. That is a statistical reality. Putting a "car" limited to 20 MPH -- with very, very little in the way of crash protection -- on the road with other, much heavier, automobiles is a horrible idea.
rorrr 14y ago
Make sure you buy a life insurance with that baby, if you're planning to go on US roads.
afterburner 14y ago
The impracticality is well addressed by other comments, but the my first reaction was: why did they choose the worst possible shade of green?
- Wingman4l7 14y ago
  To be fair, that's just a render -- but you have a point. Reminds me of the Microsoft Zune -- what genius thought that the best color for a device competing with black and white iPods was poo brown? What was wrong with, say, navy blue? Ruby red? Forest green? I always wondered if the marketing guru who made that decision got fired.
rmason 14y ago
What the guys are doing at Current Motor seems way more practical but again up North you're only using it at most six months of the year. http://www.currentmotor.com/ http://www.currentmotor.com/
reedlaw 14y ago
These kinds of vehicles are abundant in China and much cheaper. http://search8.taobao.com/search?q=%B5%E7%B6%AF+%C8%FD%C2%D6+%B7%E2%B1%D5&commend=all&ssid=s5-e-p1&pid=mm_14507416_2297358_8935934&suggest=0_1&source=suggest http://search8.taobao.com/search?q=%B5%E7%B6%AF+%C8%FD%C2%D6... Most of these are under $2000. Like electric motorbikes, they can be rapidly charged on the road all over China.
Wingman4l7 14y ago
Color me unconvinced, for all of the usual arguments that have been already enumerated in the other comments. I'm beginning to think that this form of personal transportation is akin to the flying car in terms of viability.
jstalin 14y ago
I don't see how a 480w battery can power a 750 watt motor for 30 miles.
SageRaven 14y ago
A decade ago, I was eyeing up the "Lectra" (electric motorcycle) for work commuting. With the price of solar panels having halved their per-watt price in the same intervening decade, such a vehicle might make sense today. Are there any current 100% electric motorcycles today?
fernly 14y ago
There are dozens of velomobiles being made and sold, and some of them are the sweetest, most beautiful little vehicles ever made. And just about every one of them can be ordered with an aux electric assist. For pictures and prices see velomobiles.ca, velomobiles.net, bluevelo.com, velomobilesusa.com. And use google images "velomobile" for an array of some truly bizarre shapes.

39 points by ph0rque 14y ago

Looks kind of like a Piaggio Ape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape (pronounced AH-pay).

fernly 14y ago
Ooh that's unfortunate... if you've spent any time in Italia you've seen the ah-pay, probably been stuck in traffic behind one. They are as slow as they are ugly and smoke and stink like the outskirts of Mordor. The less this thing reminds anyone of an Ape, the better for it.

nacker 14y ago

It just needs one more ingredient to make it a must buy for its target market: Hemp! Introducing Kestrel, The First Road-Ready Car Built Out Of Hemp http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-02/introducing-first-road-ready-hemp-mobile http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-02/introducing-first...

stcredzero 14y ago

Houston is ver hot, but very flat. I wonder if this would work with a cooler chest air conditioner? It would be added weight, but like I said, there's few hills in Houston.

mchusma 14y ago

Any thoughts on the enclosure? It seems to me that making it enclosed defeats some of the most significant benefits to a bicycle: compactness. Once something gets over the "too big for a bike rack or my apartment" threshold, you run into parking problems. Also, with its size, you can't go around traffic. Despite showing this on sidewalks, I would anticipate that you in practice couldn't do it that often. It would be highly irritating to me as a pedestrian. So I do love it because it is cheap & electric. I like that because it is so large and the range is short enough to be concerning, plugging it in would be a pain and the solar cells solve that. I don't love it because it is not a bicycle replacement, it is a car replacement with short range and little space. This is because expensive enough to be a considered purchase (the price of a 2005 Hyundai Elantra) and large enough that it needs identical parking/road space. The niche for this is seems to be people in suburban areas who live within a few miles of frequent destinations and want to bike but not really. I love that people are trying to reinvent transportation, and if this is a really niche cool thing, that's great. I would be curious to see if anyone thinks that could have broad appeal.

stephengillie 14y ago
It can't even do 25mph. That's a deal breaker for most car users, especially when it costs as much as a used car. This idea feels more like "How far can we extend a bicycle?" than "How can we make a smaller, cheaper, better way for people to transport themselves?"
- stcredzero 14y ago
  At 25mph, it would fill the same sort of niche that golf carts fill in some retirement communities. Although, there are compelling arguments for reorganizing large parts of metropolitan areas with 25mph streets. Apparently, traffic fatalities go down and pedestrian traffic goes up. > I don't love it because it is not a bicycle replacement, it is a car replacement with short range and little space. It is not a replacement for car or bicycle. It's an attempt at an intermediate niche.
- benajnim 14y ago
  This is unfortunately a federal restriction on electrically assisted bicycles. The motor cuts off at 20 mph, the driver can peddle faster than this but the electric assist is only for the low speed range.
at-fates-hands 14y ago
" It seems to me that making it enclosed defeats some of the most significant benefits to a bicycle: compactness. Once something gets over the "too big for a bike rack or my apartment" threshold, you run into parking problems" This was my first thought. Also, if you can't ride on the sidewalk, it's way too big and slow to be in normal traffic. I'm sure it would irk the hell out of people driving cars as well. A lose/lose proposition if you ask me.
bryanlarsen 14y ago
The rendering on the original article doesn't convey it well, but it is compact. It's about as wide as a football player's shoulders. The enclosure makes it look a lot wider than a person on a normal bicycle, but it really isn't much different. So this is actually an advantage: one of the problems with bicycles is that car drivers underestimate just how wide a person on a bicycle really is and how much room they need. The wheels might be skinny, but add a body and handlebars, and it becomes much wider.

Shivetya 14y ago

First, who is this we you are talking about. Having watched the videos, I would not crash it. I could get no idea of stopping power and the view from inside doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy that a front on collision will be fun. Throw in the fact that NVH levels are very high with this item. I really see it was one of those obscure solutions that hints at the possibilities but suffers too many compromises to be viable.

sosuke 14y ago
The first thing I looked for was the a safety cage or something, just a whole lotta fiberglass.
EliRivers 14y ago
"I would not crash it." I don't think you're meant to.

R_Edward 14y ago

Living in Minneapolis/St. Paul, I'm thinking this is not likely to catch on here. 4-5 months out of the year, the roads are icy; the air is cold, limiting the effectiveness of the battery; and the daylight hours are short. Maybe it'll catch on in the more temperate states.

benajnim 14y ago
There are a surprising number of folks in the metro who do bicycle on even the most brutal winter days. Typically armament includes studded tires and with a "cabin" it would greatly cut down on the chill from the wind. If anything, I think it would make cycling in colder weather more accessible to more people. Also, keeping the battery indoors before going on a ride helps prevent the "sag" in voltage experience when a battery does get cold. It could also be kept in an insulated container and even heated with a heating element similar to an electric blanket.
- R_Edward 14y ago
  Oh, I've no doubt that some of the hard-core cyclists would latch on to it--eliminating the wind chill effect would be a big score over riding on a naked bike, but hoi polloi, the people with a short commute who could switch to something like this without too much sacrifice, are going to think twice about it.

Toenex 14y ago

Frankly I wasn't expecting the future to look like a French provincial postal delivery vehicle from 1947.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Heh, 750 watt motor is a 1HP btw, back in Junior High I convinced my dad to let me buy a 'mini-bike' with a 1.5HP Briggs&Stratton motor, then later we "upgraded" it to a 5HP motor which involved a small bit of custom welding on the frame and an upgraded centrifugal clutch. It was a blast for driving around in the desert but not really a 'utility' vehicle. That said, if they put a Lemco LEM-200 [1] (Peak power 7.8kW aka 10hp and I put two of them in my 220lb Battlebot for about 20hp of fun) into it you could have something. [1] http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=motors-and-generators-2 http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=motors-and-generators-2

brk 14y ago

This looks even LESS practical than a Segway, and we saw how that went.

bradleyland 14y ago

The problem with these types of vehicles is that there's nowhere (safe) to ride/drive them. You're not going to be able to ride this on a sidewalk, because it's illegal in most places, so you're forced to ride on the shoulder. A bicycle, with its inline wheels, fits nicely on a shoulder. With this, you're stuck on the shoulder, and you don't exactly fit well. The physics of automobile accidents are immutable. If you get in to a collision with even a sub-compact car while driving this thing, you're dead or very seriously injured. Accidents involving cars and bicycles, of course, occur, but you have a narrow profile and you're out in the open, so you can bail pretty easily. In this thing, you're more like a motor-vehicle. Other drivers will inevitably confuse you for a motor-vehicle, and in some places, local laws will consider this some type of motor-vehicle. Creating a new class of transportation is as much about the infrastructure as it is the product itself.

oftenwrong 14y ago
Drive in a lane, not on the shoulder.
- Wingman4l7 14y ago
  It's "limited to 20 mph" (this somehow lets it be classed as a bicycle, a claim of which I am dubious). Even a 50cc scooter goes faster than that.
- bradleyland 14y ago
  I see this all the time with scooters. They're motor-vehicles. Riders are supposed to drive in the lane, but here's the rub: they don't. I see it all the time. Scooter drivers hug the edge of the road. They do so at their own peril. The drivers behind them are confused. Does the scooter want them to pass? Is it even legal to pass right now; there's a double-yellow (no passing in the US) line on the road? Let's accept the argument here and say that drivers of this vehicle do drive in a lane. They are, at that point, putting themselves on equal footing with other drivers. Driving 20 MPH on just about any street where the speed limit is above 25 MPH is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't simply tell other drivers that they're allowed to and expect them not to be frustrated. Frustration leads to aggressive driving, and aggressive driving leads to accidents. Accidents are highest when vehicles traveling at different speeds encounter each other. That is a statistical reality. Putting a "car" limited to 20 MPH -- with very, very little in the way of crash protection -- on the road with other, much heavier, automobiles is a horrible idea.

rorrr 14y ago

Make sure you buy a life insurance with that baby, if you're planning to go on US roads.

afterburner 14y ago

The impracticality is well addressed by other comments, but the my first reaction was: why did they choose the worst possible shade of green?

Wingman4l7 14y ago
To be fair, that's just a render -- but you have a point. Reminds me of the Microsoft Zune -- what genius thought that the best color for a device competing with black and white iPods was poo brown? What was wrong with, say, navy blue? Ruby red? Forest green? I always wondered if the marketing guru who made that decision got fired.

rmason 14y ago

What the guys are doing at Current Motor seems way more practical but again up North you're only using it at most six months of the year. http://www.currentmotor.com/ http://www.currentmotor.com/

reedlaw 14y ago

These kinds of vehicles are abundant in China and much cheaper. http://search8.taobao.com/search?q=%B5%E7%B6%AF+%C8%FD%C2%D6+%B7%E2%B1%D5&commend=all&ssid=s5-e-p1&pid=mm_14507416_2297358_8935934&suggest=0_1&source=suggest http://search8.taobao.com/search?q=%B5%E7%B6%AF+%C8%FD%C2%D6... Most of these are under $2000. Like electric motorbikes, they can be rapidly charged on the road all over China.

Wingman4l7 14y ago

Color me unconvinced, for all of the usual arguments that have been already enumerated in the other comments. I'm beginning to think that this form of personal transportation is akin to the flying car in terms of viability.

jstalin 14y ago

I don't see how a 480w battery can power a 750 watt motor for 30 miles.

SageRaven 14y ago

A decade ago, I was eyeing up the "Lectra" (electric motorcycle) for work commuting. With the price of solar panels having halved their per-watt price in the same intervening decade, such a vehicle might make sense today. Are there any current 100% electric motorcycles today?

fernly 14y ago

There are dozens of velomobiles being made and sold, and some of them are the sweetest, most beautiful little vehicles ever made. And just about every one of them can be ordered with an aux electric assist. For pictures and prices see velomobiles.ca, velomobiles.net, bluevelo.com, velomobilesusa.com. And use google images "velomobile" for an array of some truly bizarre shapes.