5 ms·

That's pretty amazing. It's like Interface Builder but for Cappuccino ... and as a web app. I can't believe how awesome these guys are, I hope Apple acquires

by hbien 18y ago

That's pretty amazing. It's like Interface Builder but for Cappuccino ... and as a web app. I can't believe how awesome these guys are, I hope Apple acquires them and starts using their technology for MobileMe + iWork.

numair 18y ago
If you knew anything about what happened to WebObjects, you would be hoping that such a scenario never occurred.
- mpc 18y ago
  A summary of that would be great.... I know that Apple pushed WebObjects to the back burner when they acquired NeXT in the mid 90s but I'm not sure why it would be bad for them to buy 280 North today.
  - bonaldi 18y ago
    Unless there's a clear way for something to shift hardware, Apple isn't really interested in it. WebObjects has languished, despite being killer in more than one respect. An update (and de-java-ing) of WO tools with something like Atlas integrated would be absolutely killer, but unless it helps them shift more Macs in big numbers, I don't see it going anywhere.
    - gstar 18y ago
      My punt is that Apple is going to make a big enterprise play in the next 2-3 years. Time is ripe, and it can be done without a big investment in capital. Wait until Steve Jobs publicly denounces enterprise IT as a business with no future. He'll be right, in more ways than one.
      - jacquesm 18y ago
        Let's hope that Steve Jobs is still going to be around in 2-3 years. I'm no groupie but I'd hate to see him go.
      - mikeryan 18y ago
        iWork, iCal server etc. Apple is in the middle of a large enterprise play. It's just not a big marketing push yet, they're likely waiting for the product to mature a bit.
      - dmix 18y ago
        "-enterprise IT as a business with no future. He'll be right, in more ways than one." Can you clarify? Because that seems very misinformed. Unless you mean on-premise deployments, which has been on the way out for years. With SaaS + cloud computing, Enterprise IT is just starting to get interesting again.
        gstar 18y ago
        I can't give this topic the justice it deserves in an HN comment, but yes I'll clarify. In 10 years time, the "IT Department" virtually won't exist at most small-mid size businesses. I think a lot of business software is going to be taken off-the-peg, or plug-boarded from open source software as interfaces approach ubiquity and organisations like government, banking and b2b start to expose consistent "APIs". It's already happening now. We also have gen X and Y moving into senior management and the internet generation actually moving into work. Computer skills are getting to the point of being virtually innate. Acquiring computer equipment will be analogous in business to buying a photocopier or some other office equipment. </crystalball>
        pxlpshr 18y ago
        Absolutely agree with you on all points. I've been saying this for a few years too, and you see it happening now with cloud computing replacing IT guys in startups. I'm actually very happy this is occurring because more than 50% of the time, dealing with the IT guy is like dealing with a bad police officer. It seems like they're always on some kind of misplaced power trip...
        whitemice 18y ago
        Seriously? I hear this all the time; do you guys work in IT or in web development? The web people are way over on another page. ERP is primarily the reason IT exists and ERP packages take DECADES to change - witness the MASSIVE amount of COBOL still around (including here). ERP deployments are complex and almost always customized. I suspect Gen X and Gen Y (which includes me) generally doesn't have a clue at what goes on in a "real" IT center - meaning one that is not (a) some awesome start-up that will be forgotten dust tomorrow or (b) a web oriented consumer-facing business. Nothing in IT is anything like "buying a photocopier" nor will it ever be. The company that takes that approach will be run into the ground by its competitor that innovates.
  - cturner 18y ago
    > A summary of that would be great.... Heh. Serious power, terrible polish. They blew off all the NeXT veterans when they destroyed it as an objective-c development platform, but didn't finish the job of porting it to Java for five years so you ended up working on this platform that feels like a developed-in-isolation mainframe monster. Dev tools looked nice but made you want to slit your wrists from random crashes and other strangeness. There were a couple of periods where they looked like they would kill it which was stressful for people with codebases on it. All efforts at documentation did a very poor job of selling its incredible patterns and features. But everyone I know who stuck at it has done well - many ended up at Apple working on very cool projects. I'd love to read a history of whoever wrote it one day - it was so far ahead of its time - I've got a theory that they had some people on it who had done serious research and practical time on some sort of web-like thin-client platform that pre-dated the web. Culture in Apple is different now too.
- tlrobinson 18y ago
  We don't plan on creating a Java version of Cappuccino and killing off the Objective-J API any time soon ;)
dizm 18y ago
I believe some if not all of the guys working at 280 North are ex-Apple engineers.

by hbien 18y ago

numair 18y ago

If you knew anything about what happened to WebObjects, you would be hoping that such a scenario never occurred.

mpc 18y ago
A summary of that would be great.... I know that Apple pushed WebObjects to the back burner when they acquired NeXT in the mid 90s but I'm not sure why it would be bad for them to buy 280 North today.
- bonaldi 18y ago
  Unless there's a clear way for something to shift hardware, Apple isn't really interested in it. WebObjects has languished, despite being killer in more than one respect. An update (and de-java-ing) of WO tools with something like Atlas integrated would be absolutely killer, but unless it helps them shift more Macs in big numbers, I don't see it going anywhere.
  - gstar 18y ago
    My punt is that Apple is going to make a big enterprise play in the next 2-3 years. Time is ripe, and it can be done without a big investment in capital. Wait until Steve Jobs publicly denounces enterprise IT as a business with no future. He'll be right, in more ways than one.
    - jacquesm 18y ago
      Let's hope that Steve Jobs is still going to be around in 2-3 years. I'm no groupie but I'd hate to see him go.
    - mikeryan 18y ago
      iWork, iCal server etc. Apple is in the middle of a large enterprise play. It's just not a big marketing push yet, they're likely waiting for the product to mature a bit.
    - dmix 18y ago
      "-enterprise IT as a business with no future. He'll be right, in more ways than one." Can you clarify? Because that seems very misinformed. Unless you mean on-premise deployments, which has been on the way out for years. With SaaS + cloud computing, Enterprise IT is just starting to get interesting again.
      - gstar 18y ago
        I can't give this topic the justice it deserves in an HN comment, but yes I'll clarify. In 10 years time, the "IT Department" virtually won't exist at most small-mid size businesses. I think a lot of business software is going to be taken off-the-peg, or plug-boarded from open source software as interfaces approach ubiquity and organisations like government, banking and b2b start to expose consistent "APIs". It's already happening now. We also have gen X and Y moving into senior management and the internet generation actually moving into work. Computer skills are getting to the point of being virtually innate. Acquiring computer equipment will be analogous in business to buying a photocopier or some other office equipment. </crystalball>
        pxlpshr 18y ago
        Absolutely agree with you on all points. I've been saying this for a few years too, and you see it happening now with cloud computing replacing IT guys in startups. I'm actually very happy this is occurring because more than 50% of the time, dealing with the IT guy is like dealing with a bad police officer. It seems like they're always on some kind of misplaced power trip...
        whitemice 18y ago
        Seriously? I hear this all the time; do you guys work in IT or in web development? The web people are way over on another page. ERP is primarily the reason IT exists and ERP packages take DECADES to change - witness the MASSIVE amount of COBOL still around (including here). ERP deployments are complex and almost always customized. I suspect Gen X and Gen Y (which includes me) generally doesn't have a clue at what goes on in a "real" IT center - meaning one that is not (a) some awesome start-up that will be forgotten dust tomorrow or (b) a web oriented consumer-facing business. Nothing in IT is anything like "buying a photocopier" nor will it ever be. The company that takes that approach will be run into the ground by its competitor that innovates.
- cturner 18y ago
  > A summary of that would be great.... Heh. Serious power, terrible polish. They blew off all the NeXT veterans when they destroyed it as an objective-c development platform, but didn't finish the job of porting it to Java for five years so you ended up working on this platform that feels like a developed-in-isolation mainframe monster. Dev tools looked nice but made you want to slit your wrists from random crashes and other strangeness. There were a couple of periods where they looked like they would kill it which was stressful for people with codebases on it. All efforts at documentation did a very poor job of selling its incredible patterns and features. But everyone I know who stuck at it has done well - many ended up at Apple working on very cool projects. I'd love to read a history of whoever wrote it one day - it was so far ahead of its time - I've got a theory that they had some people on it who had done serious research and practical time on some sort of web-like thin-client platform that pre-dated the web. Culture in Apple is different now too.
tlrobinson 18y ago
We don't plan on creating a Java version of Cappuccino and killing off the Objective-J API any time soon ;)

dizm 18y ago

I believe some if not all of the guys working at 280 North are ex-Apple engineers.