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> The user chooses themselves what part of a product they engage with. It's like reporting a post would be considered voluntary feedback on the anti spam system

> The user chooses themselves what part of a product they engage with. It's like reporting a post would be considered voluntary feedback on the anti spam systems even if it's the case that every report is measured and fed back into the model for predicting reports. If the user cannot use e.g. instagram without generating engagement metrics, then it is not a voluntary metric. User reports - which are generated via a deliberate action from the user - are voluntary.

charcircuit 1mo ago
Open the app. Liking videos. Swiping off of a video early. These are voluntary too.
- solid_fuel 1mo ago
  I think I have made my point about the difference between voluntary and involuntary metrics quite clearly. If you aren’t going to meaningfully engage with it, we have nothing further to discuss.
  - charcircuit 1mo ago
    Same we can end it. I personally see reporting a video and liking the video as being the same. They are 2 different voluntary actions users can take. I personally see these taps and swipes by the user as deliberate actions they are making, but I guess you don't?
    - solid_fuel 1mo ago
      I see a distinction between like/dislike buttons, which a user chooses to engage with, and things like instrumenting the time a video plays on screen before the user scrolls past. The scrolling is an interaction, but it does not constitute a voluntary choice to give feedback because you scroll regardless to see more content. Measuring the amount of linger time on content is an incredibly powerful signal precisely because it is subconscious. It’s the difference between giving someone a like/dislike button and wiring up a heart monitor to see what causes faster heart rate. One is voluntary - intentional, if that makes it more clear - the other is involuntary - just an artifact of using the app which can be measured but which is unintentional. I don’t believe we should be measuring lizard brain responses and using them to serve up content. Let people make conscious choices instead.

charcircuit 1mo ago

Open the app. Liking videos. Swiping off of a video early. These are voluntary too.

solid_fuel 1mo ago
I think I have made my point about the difference between voluntary and involuntary metrics quite clearly. If you aren’t going to meaningfully engage with it, we have nothing further to discuss.
- charcircuit 1mo ago
  Same we can end it. I personally see reporting a video and liking the video as being the same. They are 2 different voluntary actions users can take. I personally see these taps and swipes by the user as deliberate actions they are making, but I guess you don't?
  - solid_fuel 1mo ago
    I see a distinction between like/dislike buttons, which a user chooses to engage with, and things like instrumenting the time a video plays on screen before the user scrolls past. The scrolling is an interaction, but it does not constitute a voluntary choice to give feedback because you scroll regardless to see more content. Measuring the amount of linger time on content is an incredibly powerful signal precisely because it is subconscious. It’s the difference between giving someone a like/dislike button and wiring up a heart monitor to see what causes faster heart rate. One is voluntary - intentional, if that makes it more clear - the other is involuntary - just an artifact of using the app which can be measured but which is unintentional. I don’t believe we should be measuring lizard brain responses and using them to serve up content. Let people make conscious choices instead.