3 ms·

Given who founded Xlibre (Metux) has some...interesting history (he was banned from the X.org project due to poor code quality and practices [1]) I would say no

Given who founded Xlibre (Metux) has some...interesting history (he was banned from the X.org project due to poor code quality and practices [1]) I would say no Metux himself also has some "fascinating" takes as archived from other projects such as the LKML [1] and Devuan [2] mailing lists [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/1797 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/179... [2] https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20190404153507/https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20181010.191925.ee1331b6.en.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190404153507/https://lists.dyn...

S-E-P 1mo ago
Ah yes, "he doesn't agree with me, therefore he must be [insane|incapable|inept]" argument tied in with some nothing burger about Metux pushing code that could break things. While I'm over here having to move to Xorg as Wayland breaks my applications about once every two months. Breaking changes, poor code quality, LLMs, or maybe it's just that the devs of Wayland were more motivated by their own personal needs/wants then the Xorg users. I can never get back the hours I lost troubleshooting graphics drivers only to realize that Wayland claimed it should work, but doesn't. I'll take whatever Metux gives me if it works, or from anyone else for that matter.
- kelnos 1mo ago
  Not the person you're replying to, but years ago Metux used to send PRs to a different project that I maintain. He was difficult to work with, insisted that his way was the right way when I wanted something else, and his code quality was usually middling at best. Some of his PRs were of the annoying "tidy this up" form, where it felt like someone who just wanted more commits in a repo and lines in `git blame`. I hope his xlibre project is successful, but my opinion of the project is certainly tainted by my past interactions with him.
  - S-E-P 1mo ago
    I don't doubt you. I think it's a good way to look at it. I appreciate what he's trying to do with Xlibre but I would never work in that environment with or without him. As I said to the other guy I just hope this is better than what we have and I'll take about anything at this rate. I don't care to deal with people on that level anymore, which is why I stopped developing OSS over 10 years ago; everyone has their opinions about the code, if they can't solve that they fight over politics to "justify" forking and the downward spiral ever goes downward.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
- CursedSilicon 1mo ago
  That's quite a disingenuous response to something I said with citations and no direct stated opinions on the person. Be better
  - S-E-P 1mo ago
    > Be better What year are we in?
    - CursedSilicon 1mo ago
      ...Did we suddenly abandon bettering ourselves in 2026?
      - S-E-P 1mo ago
        The "be better" comment was used exclusively by the worst people i knew for 4 years straight. So for me, absolutely. It's condescending, unnecessary, and it is a polarizing comment people who are miserable leave to annoy the rest of us.
        CursedSilicon 1mo ago
        Sorry that self-improvement hurts you so
        S-E-P 1mo ago
        Sorry that you are incapable of seeing how others perceive you
  - bmacho 1mo ago
    Citations from people who want the whole platform die. (Actually they get paid for that, it's their dayjob to kill X11, but it can be their personal belief as well)
    - sertraline 1mo ago
- anonreplier 1mo ago
  What applications?
- Timon3 1mo ago
  > Ah yes, [...] some nothing burger about Metux pushing code that could break things. Not could break, did break. Multiple times. When a contributor repeatedly submits broken and untested PRs, the correct solution isn't to let him keep trying as often as he wants.
  - S-E-P 1mo ago
    idk man, it seems like a bunch of glass houses. In context if you read what I said I didn't imply Metux was the best out there; I was highlighting how absolutely terrible Wayland is and how I will take anything at this point.
    - Timon3 1mo ago
      You can do that without misrepresenting the issues that got him banned. This happens almost every time there's a discussion on Xorg-related stuff, and I'm tired of seeing the maintainers getting slandered over and over. So, here are a few direct links to the comments/issues/MRs (in chronological order), some very minor stuff, some bigger. I also didn't cherrypick examples where the maintainers acted perfectly, but IMO metux is far more difficult as you can see. Note I didn't search very long, so keep looking if you want to see more before you're sure: - Small procedural issues: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1294#note_2287835 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux being difficult regarding work with nvidia: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/commit/095e8ee8713f7bd5dea995bc3830c2c0952cd508#note_2312870 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/commit/095e8ee... - metux causes regression & it stays unaddressed for weeks, even though he was pushing on other branches: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1574#note_2490273 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux is marking threads as resolved when comments are unaddressed: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1696#note_2798511 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux causing unnecessary API breakage in commits marked trivial: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/1760#note_2607022 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/176... - metux isn't properly testing his PRs: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/1797#note_2800273 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/179... - metux breaking downstream again: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/2007#note_2928165 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... None of these are terrible on their own, but IMO taken together I can't fault the maintainers at all.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
vedmed 1mo ago
You're trying to cancel this guy's project on hackernews comments because he quoted winston churchhill in 2025 and didn't get a vaccine donut in 2019? What do you get from it? Is he your enemy? Seems like you are trying to destroy him using this comment as attack vector. And this comment is well prepared and sourced and easily repeatable, so I presume you use multiple attack vectors like this. Just an observation. And as an observer, this is annoying to see.
- CursedSilicon 1mo ago
  That's a deliberate misreading of events but okay :)
einpoklum 1mo ago
I was about to reply that it is now a project with many contributions, but looking here: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/graphs/contributors?from=16%2F05%2F2026 https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/graphs/contributors?from... it seems that there are only two additional significant contributors (an anonymous "stefan1111" and Alan Coopersmith, an X.org member who maintains the Solaris port), and a larger number of people who contributed a couple of commits here and there - and Enrico Weigelt (metux)'s commits are about three times as many as everyone else's combined. So, it is still very much his project, although not exclusively. As for your links: You point to some exchanges which indicate problematic opinions, and an exchange which indicates, or at least, in which the project founder is accused of being somewhat reckless in making changes. The first kind of are legitimate to point out, and would make me wary of befriending him, but not directly relevant to his technical capabilities. The second kind is more worrying. Do you have a link to someone analyzing/considering the changes made to Xlibre relative to Xorg? Be that as it may - while this does not sway me into belief in Wayland, it does introduce a grain of salt into my view of the X side of things, and thank you for that.

S-E-P 1mo ago

Ah yes, "he doesn't agree with me, therefore he must be [insane|incapable|inept]" argument tied in with some nothing burger about Metux pushing code that could break things. While I'm over here having to move to Xorg as Wayland breaks my applications about once every two months. Breaking changes, poor code quality, LLMs, or maybe it's just that the devs of Wayland were more motivated by their own personal needs/wants then the Xorg users. I can never get back the hours I lost troubleshooting graphics drivers only to realize that Wayland claimed it should work, but doesn't. I'll take whatever Metux gives me if it works, or from anyone else for that matter.

kelnos 1mo ago
Not the person you're replying to, but years ago Metux used to send PRs to a different project that I maintain. He was difficult to work with, insisted that his way was the right way when I wanted something else, and his code quality was usually middling at best. Some of his PRs were of the annoying "tidy this up" form, where it felt like someone who just wanted more commits in a repo and lines in `git blame`. I hope his xlibre project is successful, but my opinion of the project is certainly tainted by my past interactions with him.
- S-E-P 1mo ago
  I don't doubt you. I think it's a good way to look at it. I appreciate what he's trying to do with Xlibre but I would never work in that environment with or without him. As I said to the other guy I just hope this is better than what we have and I'll take about anything at this rate. I don't care to deal with people on that level anymore, which is why I stopped developing OSS over 10 years ago; everyone has their opinions about the code, if they can't solve that they fight over politics to "justify" forking and the downward spiral ever goes downward.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
CursedSilicon 1mo ago
That's quite a disingenuous response to something I said with citations and no direct stated opinions on the person. Be better
- S-E-P 1mo ago
  > Be better What year are we in?
  - CursedSilicon 1mo ago
    ...Did we suddenly abandon bettering ourselves in 2026?
    - S-E-P 1mo ago
      The "be better" comment was used exclusively by the worst people i knew for 4 years straight. So for me, absolutely. It's condescending, unnecessary, and it is a polarizing comment people who are miserable leave to annoy the rest of us.
      - CursedSilicon 1mo ago
        Sorry that self-improvement hurts you so
        S-E-P 1mo ago
        Sorry that you are incapable of seeing how others perceive you
- bmacho 1mo ago
  Citations from people who want the whole platform die. (Actually they get paid for that, it's their dayjob to kill X11, but it can be their personal belief as well)
  - sertraline 1mo ago
anonreplier 1mo ago
What applications?
Timon3 1mo ago
> Ah yes, [...] some nothing burger about Metux pushing code that could break things. Not could break, did break. Multiple times. When a contributor repeatedly submits broken and untested PRs, the correct solution isn't to let him keep trying as often as he wants.
- S-E-P 1mo ago
  idk man, it seems like a bunch of glass houses. In context if you read what I said I didn't imply Metux was the best out there; I was highlighting how absolutely terrible Wayland is and how I will take anything at this point.
  - Timon3 1mo ago
    You can do that without misrepresenting the issues that got him banned. This happens almost every time there's a discussion on Xorg-related stuff, and I'm tired of seeing the maintainers getting slandered over and over. So, here are a few direct links to the comments/issues/MRs (in chronological order), some very minor stuff, some bigger. I also didn't cherrypick examples where the maintainers acted perfectly, but IMO metux is far more difficult as you can see. Note I didn't search very long, so keep looking if you want to see more before you're sure: - Small procedural issues: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1294#note_2287835 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux being difficult regarding work with nvidia: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/commit/095e8ee8713f7bd5dea995bc3830c2c0952cd508#note_2312870 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/commit/095e8ee... - metux causes regression & it stays unaddressed for weeks, even though he was pushing on other branches: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1574#note_2490273 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux is marking threads as resolved when comments are unaddressed: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/1696#note_2798511 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... - metux causing unnecessary API breakage in commits marked trivial: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/1760#note_2607022 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/176... - metux isn't properly testing his PRs: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/1797#note_2800273 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/179... - metux breaking downstream again: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/2007#note_2928165 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests... None of these are terrible on their own, but IMO taken together I can't fault the maintainers at all.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

vedmed 1mo ago

You're trying to cancel this guy's project on hackernews comments because he quoted winston churchhill in 2025 and didn't get a vaccine donut in 2019? What do you get from it? Is he your enemy? Seems like you are trying to destroy him using this comment as attack vector. And this comment is well prepared and sourced and easily repeatable, so I presume you use multiple attack vectors like this. Just an observation. And as an observer, this is annoying to see.

CursedSilicon 1mo ago
That's a deliberate misreading of events but okay :)

einpoklum 1mo ago

I was about to reply that it is now a project with many contributions, but looking here: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/graphs/contributors?from=16%2F05%2F2026 https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/graphs/contributors?from... it seems that there are only two additional significant contributors (an anonymous "stefan1111" and Alan Coopersmith, an X.org member who maintains the Solaris port), and a larger number of people who contributed a couple of commits here and there - and Enrico Weigelt (metux)'s commits are about three times as many as everyone else's combined. So, it is still very much his project, although not exclusively. As for your links: You point to some exchanges which indicate problematic opinions, and an exchange which indicates, or at least, in which the project founder is accused of being somewhat reckless in making changes. The first kind of are legitimate to point out, and would make me wary of befriending him, but not directly relevant to his technical capabilities. The second kind is more worrying. Do you have a link to someone analyzing/considering the changes made to Xlibre relative to Xorg? Be that as it may - while this does not sway me into belief in Wayland, it does introduce a grain of salt into my view of the X side of things, and thank you for that.