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Because Android is miles ahead in terms of security, permission management, app separation, power management, privacy... Linux crowd can not even agree on comp

Because Android is miles ahead in terms of security, permission management, app separation, power management, privacy... Linux crowd can not even agree on compositor, and if systemd or sudo is a good idea.

thesuitonym 2mo ago
> Linux crowd can not even agree on compositor, and if systemd or sudo is a good idea. This is actually a feature.
bigfishrunning 2mo ago
Why should Linux users have to agree? run what you want, it's your computer.
- tclancy 2mo ago
  Well, if you want a mass market device that runs Linux, you have to meet the market. Otherwise we can start tracking 2525 as the year of Linux on the smartphone. If man is still alive.
  - bigfishrunning 2mo ago
    The concept of a mass market device is sort of incompatible with the freedoms we generally associate with linux -- Android is really the closest thing we can hope for. It runs a linux kernel, a very non-standard userspace, and is relatively locked down (when compared to a general purpose linux distribution) I think "linux smartphone" would end up looking very similar -- some UI on top of a kernel with a very non-LSB userspace; therefore the concept is really not all that compelling
    - tclancy 2mo ago
      > The concept of a mass market device is sort of incompatible with the freedoms we generally associate with linux But take that far enough and you get Stallman'd into a corner where someone points out that's great, but no phone for you.
- AuthAuth 2mo ago
  Because there are only a few people who actually build this kind of software and if they cant agree how it should look. No projects will have the dev power to come out with a solution.
Eueudhsbsj32 2mo ago
I strongly disagree. The only reason I still use an Android phone is that countless third-party services (that are too useful for me to give up) require the Android/iOS ecosystem.
- armadyl 2mo ago
  You can strongly disagree but it doesn’t change the fact that the comment by the OP is objectively true. Especially in this political climate it’s insane to recommend people switch to a phone OS that can be pwned via hardware or software means in virtually zero time versus something like GOS + a Pixel or an iPhone.
  - fsflover 1mo ago
    Can all the Linux servers also be pwned in no time? This is a huge exaggeration. This requires the users to know what they are doing and running -- with this I agree. But it's doable today.
    - armadyl 1mo ago
      No. The hardware and software security of Android/iOS/iPadOS/GOS devices are leagues ahead of Linux servers in all aspects and it’s not even close (but they also serve different purposes so to some extent I’m not sure how 1:1 this comparison is). However, this discussion focuses on desktop style Linux distros which is what these phones are running which have inadequate security. Desktop Linux is inferior security-wise to a server environment where each process/app is running as it’s own user etc. Desktop-style Linux phones also have virtually zero hardware security versus the alternatives. It doesn’t matter if a user knows what they are doing. For example installing so-called “trusted” apps means they’re only trustworthy at that moment in time and not forward-looking. All it takes is one supply chain or runtime security exploit. Software security is also extremely poor with a lack of comprehensive sandboxing and so on, I would just read the grapheneos accounts replies on here since they’re writing entire novels on this. I mean even GrapheneOS shows how relevant this is with Samuel Tunick, on the front page today. If he’d had a desktop Linux phone that was seized from him while in AFU, sure it would be “private” but there would be virtually nothing stopping officials from running through his entire phone since so many of these desktop Linux distros rely on poor security elements if any on top of FDE with LUKS so your entire device is basically exposed and unencrypted after the first unlock. This whole comment was borderline stream of consciousness so I apologize if anything is unclear here.

thesuitonym 2mo ago

> Linux crowd can not even agree on compositor, and if systemd or sudo is a good idea. This is actually a feature.

bigfishrunning 2mo ago

Why should Linux users have to agree? run what you want, it's your computer.

tclancy 2mo ago
Well, if you want a mass market device that runs Linux, you have to meet the market. Otherwise we can start tracking 2525 as the year of Linux on the smartphone. If man is still alive.
- bigfishrunning 2mo ago
  The concept of a mass market device is sort of incompatible with the freedoms we generally associate with linux -- Android is really the closest thing we can hope for. It runs a linux kernel, a very non-standard userspace, and is relatively locked down (when compared to a general purpose linux distribution) I think "linux smartphone" would end up looking very similar -- some UI on top of a kernel with a very non-LSB userspace; therefore the concept is really not all that compelling
  - tclancy 2mo ago
    > The concept of a mass market device is sort of incompatible with the freedoms we generally associate with linux But take that far enough and you get Stallman'd into a corner where someone points out that's great, but no phone for you.
AuthAuth 2mo ago
Because there are only a few people who actually build this kind of software and if they cant agree how it should look. No projects will have the dev power to come out with a solution.

Eueudhsbsj32 2mo ago

I strongly disagree. The only reason I still use an Android phone is that countless third-party services (that are too useful for me to give up) require the Android/iOS ecosystem.

armadyl 2mo ago
You can strongly disagree but it doesn’t change the fact that the comment by the OP is objectively true. Especially in this political climate it’s insane to recommend people switch to a phone OS that can be pwned via hardware or software means in virtually zero time versus something like GOS + a Pixel or an iPhone.
- fsflover 1mo ago
  Can all the Linux servers also be pwned in no time? This is a huge exaggeration. This requires the users to know what they are doing and running -- with this I agree. But it's doable today.
  - armadyl 1mo ago
    No. The hardware and software security of Android/iOS/iPadOS/GOS devices are leagues ahead of Linux servers in all aspects and it’s not even close (but they also serve different purposes so to some extent I’m not sure how 1:1 this comparison is). However, this discussion focuses on desktop style Linux distros which is what these phones are running which have inadequate security. Desktop Linux is inferior security-wise to a server environment where each process/app is running as it’s own user etc. Desktop-style Linux phones also have virtually zero hardware security versus the alternatives. It doesn’t matter if a user knows what they are doing. For example installing so-called “trusted” apps means they’re only trustworthy at that moment in time and not forward-looking. All it takes is one supply chain or runtime security exploit. Software security is also extremely poor with a lack of comprehensive sandboxing and so on, I would just read the grapheneos accounts replies on here since they’re writing entire novels on this. I mean even GrapheneOS shows how relevant this is with Samuel Tunick, on the front page today. If he’d had a desktop Linux phone that was seized from him while in AFU, sure it would be “private” but there would be virtually nothing stopping officials from running through his entire phone since so many of these desktop Linux distros rely on poor security elements if any on top of FDE with LUKS so your entire device is basically exposed and unencrypted after the first unlock. This whole comment was borderline stream of consciousness so I apologize if anything is unclear here.