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How so? The suggestion is that Gobekli Tepe is the original T-shaped pillar school of agricultural knowledge, thousands and thousands of years old, and which

How so? The suggestion is that Gobekli Tepe is the original T-shaped pillar school of agricultural knowledge, thousands and thousands of years old, and which was subsequently replicated in another region of the world where agricultural knowledge also rapidly expanded through human industry. That’s pretty clear. That it has not been academically demonstrated is of course relevant - but then, the research at Gobekli Tepe came to a screeching halt around the same time this idea was first proposed, so perhaps it is important to do more than just scratch the surface of the subject ..

andsoitis 2mo ago
Maybe you'd be happier if one used the more neutral term "complex society" instead of "civilization", since the latter has baggage. I imagine we can agree that some societies are more complex than others but that societal complexity is orthogonal to inherent cultural value. Also, it is spelled Göbekli Tepe.
- MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
  >”complex society” .. “civilization” .. “baggage” .. If Gobekli Tepe is derived from Narwala Gabarnmang, that is civilization at its absolute finest - the transmission of agricultural knowledge from one region of the world, and the replication of one site of knowledge to another site, represents actual civil-ization. > I imagine we can agree that some societies are more complex than others but that societal complexity is orthogonal to inherent cultural value. Well, like I said at the top of the thread, I don’t think orthogonality nor complexity should be the basis of an understanding of the nature of civilization, whatsoever. From both of these abstract notions a hierarchy is defined - whereas I see, personally, a distinct expansion of human civilization occurring, if indeed the model institution of Narwala Gabarnmang was replicated in the Tepe cultures. This would be a very distinct basis of civilization, were it found to be accurate. I acknowledge it is speculation, but it is very tantalizing - and in my opinion, entirely feasible speculation. >Also, it is spelled Göbekli Tepe. Öh, ǎlrīght. Ǐ’vẽ sêẽn īt spéllẽd ìn Ēnglìsh ǎnd īn Türkísh. Sørry, Í mêänt Tûrkïyē’îsh. It’s true, I should’ve allowed for and been more respectful of that particular transmission of T-shaped knowledge…
  - andsoitis 2mo ago
    > Gobekli Tepe is derived from Narwala Gabarnmang, Ok, now we're just making up stuff.
    - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
      It’s called speculating, and the actual academic research on this speculation is actually still ongoing, so defunding this proposition as ‘just making stuff up’ is just a negation technique that is intended to prevent further thought about what is factually a very fascinating possibility. You do know that pretty much all science and technology begins with a tiny pinch of speculation, right? We wouldn’t even have civilization without someone making stuff up. And both Göbekli Tepe and Narwala Gabarnmang sites are distinct examples of humans, making stuff up. Really, how boring can you be.
      - andsoitis 2mo ago
        > It’s called speculating Indeed. > Really, how boring can you be. Some people speculate that humans were seeded by aliens. That's even more interesting than your story.
        MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
        Yeah, there’s speculative evidence of this in both the Tepe and Gabarnmang cultures, also, true that .. of course one would have to discard a bit of baggage in order to pursue the idea though ..
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]

andsoitis 2mo ago

Maybe you'd be happier if one used the more neutral term "complex society" instead of "civilization", since the latter has baggage. I imagine we can agree that some societies are more complex than others but that societal complexity is orthogonal to inherent cultural value. Also, it is spelled Göbekli Tepe.

MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
>”complex society” .. “civilization” .. “baggage” .. If Gobekli Tepe is derived from Narwala Gabarnmang, that is civilization at its absolute finest - the transmission of agricultural knowledge from one region of the world, and the replication of one site of knowledge to another site, represents actual civil-ization. > I imagine we can agree that some societies are more complex than others but that societal complexity is orthogonal to inherent cultural value. Well, like I said at the top of the thread, I don’t think orthogonality nor complexity should be the basis of an understanding of the nature of civilization, whatsoever. From both of these abstract notions a hierarchy is defined - whereas I see, personally, a distinct expansion of human civilization occurring, if indeed the model institution of Narwala Gabarnmang was replicated in the Tepe cultures. This would be a very distinct basis of civilization, were it found to be accurate. I acknowledge it is speculation, but it is very tantalizing - and in my opinion, entirely feasible speculation. >Also, it is spelled Göbekli Tepe. Öh, ǎlrīght. Ǐ’vẽ sêẽn īt spéllẽd ìn Ēnglìsh ǎnd īn Türkísh. Sørry, Í mêänt Tûrkïyē’îsh. It’s true, I should’ve allowed for and been more respectful of that particular transmission of T-shaped knowledge…
- andsoitis 2mo ago
  > Gobekli Tepe is derived from Narwala Gabarnmang, Ok, now we're just making up stuff.
  - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
    It’s called speculating, and the actual academic research on this speculation is actually still ongoing, so defunding this proposition as ‘just making stuff up’ is just a negation technique that is intended to prevent further thought about what is factually a very fascinating possibility. You do know that pretty much all science and technology begins with a tiny pinch of speculation, right? We wouldn’t even have civilization without someone making stuff up. And both Göbekli Tepe and Narwala Gabarnmang sites are distinct examples of humans, making stuff up. Really, how boring can you be.
    - andsoitis 2mo ago
      > It’s called speculating Indeed. > Really, how boring can you be. Some people speculate that humans were seeded by aliens. That's even more interesting than your story.
      - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
        Yeah, there’s speculative evidence of this in both the Tepe and Gabarnmang cultures, also, true that .. of course one would have to discard a bit of baggage in order to pursue the idea though ..
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]