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China has 350 million electric two-wheelers, 20 million EVs. China reduced air pollution from transportation by 80% in a decade. Delhi: 442. Lahore: 334. Beiji

China has 350 million electric two-wheelers, 20 million EVs. China reduced air pollution from transportation by 80% in a decade. Delhi: 442. Lahore: 334. Beijing: 16. These are the levels of PM 2.5, one of the principle measures for air pollution, on November 19. How China cleaned up its air pollution – and what that meant for the climate: https://theconversation.com/how-china-cleaned-up-its-air-pollution-and-what-that-meant-for-the-climate-270170 https://theconversation.com/how-china-cleaned-up-its-air-pol...

TechDebtDevin 2mo ago
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thelastgallon 2mo ago
Outdoor pollution ---> Use these for transportation: walk, bicycle, e-scooters, public transit, electric 2 wheeler, EV Indoor pollution ---> Use these for cooking (induction, electric resistance) stove, heatpump waterheater and furnace for HVAC Would also be nice to do: stop using coal, gas power plants. These are usually farther out from cities and probably not the most urgent. (except when Elon Musk or new DCs decide to use gas turbines in cities). Researchers say they have cracked how air pollution leads to cancer, in a discovery that completely transforms our understanding of how tumours arise: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62797777 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62797777 (discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788706) Surprise! Electric cars are already making California healthier (2023): https://electrek.co/2023/02/10/surprise-electric-cars-are-already-making-california-healthier/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/10/surprise-electric-cars-are-al... Air Pollution Kills 10 Million People a Year. Why Do We Accept That as Normal? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/environment/air-pollution-deaths-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/environment/air-p... Tiny air pollutants may cause changes in brain structure that resemble those of Alzheimer’s disease: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/well/mind/air-pollution-brain-dementia-alzheimer-memory.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/well/mind/air-pollution-b... It is important to use metrics and language that people can understand. Cigarette smoking is very well known, because public health initiatives make sure the harm is labeled. Air Pollution and Cigarette Equivalence: https://berkeleyearth.wpengine.com/air-pollution-and-cigarette-equivalence/ https://berkeleyearth.wpengine.com/air-pollution-and-cigaret... Delhi’s air pollution equivalent to smoking 50 cigarettes per day but experts say it can be fixed: https://epic.uchicago.in/delhis-air-pollution-equivalent-to-smoking-50-cigarettes-but-experts-say-it-can-be-fixed/ https://epic.uchicago.in/delhis-air-pollution-equivalent-to-... Almost all countries failing to meet mark for PM2.5, tiny particles expelled by vehicles and industry that can cause health problems: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/19/air-pollution-health-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/19/air-poll... Bees struggle to find flowers because of air pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434381 Cars and automobility have killed 60–80 million people since their invention. 1 in 34 deaths are caused by cars and automobility with 1,670,000 deaths per year. Car harm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465354 Gas stoves pollute homes with benzene, which is linked to cancer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364524 Amazon backs power plant that may become top source of US climate pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249971
- thfuran 2mo ago
  >Delhi’s air pollution equivalent to smoking 50 cigarettes Per day, which for some reason the headline didn’t include. Two packs a day is a pretty terrible baseline. At least it’s not addictive.
  - thelastgallon 2mo ago
    Thanks for catching that, yes, per day is critical to understand the harm. I edited my post.
- briandear 2mo ago
  So you support nuclear power?
  - thelastgallon 2mo ago
    I support solar. Democratize energy, everyone should have the right to produce and store energy. 1) Plug-in solar and batteries are plug-n-play. This is the first step to teach everyone energy literacy and numeracy. 2) Vertical panels immediately add 3 - 4 hours. Vertical panels have zero real estate cost and no need to build costly and slow transmission infrastructure. Every building in a city can produce energy. 3) EVs to store excess energy during the day and supply power back to the grid later. 1.8 billion vehicles connect 4 billion buildings. Buildings can produce clean energy and EVs can store energy. The lowest hanging fruit is to make sure all new buildings are built to produce, and all new vehicles are EVs. New buildings can be built with vertical panels and rooftop. The easiest thing to do is change building code, thats it. Then, we can deal with the built environment.
    - leonidasrup 2mo ago
      What source of energy will provide energy at night or bad weather? I would like to note that batteries at end of life are chemical waste and have to be disposed properly. "End of life electric vehicle batteries in China to 2060 and related resource management implications" https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-026-03555-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-026-03555-3 "The EOL batteries contain a wide range of toxic and hazardous materials that can leach into the soil and water, threatening human health and the environment. For example, lithium hexafluorophosphate (LiPF₆), a component in power batteries, hydrolyzes on contact with water to produce highly toxic hydrofluoric acid (HF). Additionally, cobalt, nickel, and organic solvents in the batteries can contaminate water and soil, leading to long-term ecological damage" https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30072026/china-ev-battery-recycling-safety-risks/ https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30072026/china-ev-battery...
infecto 2mo ago
That’s part of it but I also think education, no caste system, efficient corruption etc. I sometimes watch those Indian manufacturing videos and it amazes me how much India is living in the past.
- brutaliz 2mo ago
  [flagged]
- expedition32 2mo ago
  I live in a rich and socialist country. Guess who lives next to the highway...
ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago
> China has 350 million electric two-wheelers, 20 million EVs. And yet they have the most coal plants, and the most coal plants under construction. This comparison includes India. This is PM2.5 map of Beijing today: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=116.33,37.68,4377/loc=116.745,38.711 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... This is London: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=-1.54,51.50,3816/loc=-0.439,51.493 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... This is East USA: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=282.80,39.44,4118/loc=-75.808,39.937 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... They are not even close. For the kicks, here is Delhi today: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=74.60,24.00,1734/loc=77.795,27.668 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... Also lower than Beijing. (There's a hotspot to the west of Delhi due to wildfires.)
- ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
  Those electric 2, 3 and 4 wheelers and electric busses even if powered by coal fired electricity, will do less damage to city dwelling kids lungs than traditional engines would. And if the trend of China cleaning up their electricity supply continues (they just slipped under 50% coal) then even existing EVs will get cleaner every year with less pollution created at distant powerplants.
  - ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago
    Pollution map don't lie... and what about kids who live near plants
    - codecutter 2mo ago
      Let's not compare Delhi or Mumbai in monsoon season. Get the readings from Delhi in summer or winter and then see the pollution yourself.
cineticdaffodil 2mo ago
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cluckindan 2mo ago
PM2.5 at 16 is pretty hard to believe.
- everdrive 2mo ago
  China probably does lie about its pm 2.5 numbers, but it also seems objectively true that they (and really nearly everyone) are doing much, much better than New Dehli.
silexia 2mo ago
You can't trust any numbers China reports.

TechDebtDevin 2mo ago

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thelastgallon 2mo ago

Outdoor pollution ---> Use these for transportation: walk, bicycle, e-scooters, public transit, electric 2 wheeler, EV Indoor pollution ---> Use these for cooking (induction, electric resistance) stove, heatpump waterheater and furnace for HVAC Would also be nice to do: stop using coal, gas power plants. These are usually farther out from cities and probably not the most urgent. (except when Elon Musk or new DCs decide to use gas turbines in cities). Researchers say they have cracked how air pollution leads to cancer, in a discovery that completely transforms our understanding of how tumours arise: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62797777 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62797777 (discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788706) Surprise! Electric cars are already making California healthier (2023): https://electrek.co/2023/02/10/surprise-electric-cars-are-already-making-california-healthier/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/10/surprise-electric-cars-are-al... Air Pollution Kills 10 Million People a Year. Why Do We Accept That as Normal? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/environment/air-pollution-deaths-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/environment/air-p... Tiny air pollutants may cause changes in brain structure that resemble those of Alzheimer’s disease: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/well/mind/air-pollution-brain-dementia-alzheimer-memory.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/well/mind/air-pollution-b... It is important to use metrics and language that people can understand. Cigarette smoking is very well known, because public health initiatives make sure the harm is labeled. Air Pollution and Cigarette Equivalence: https://berkeleyearth.wpengine.com/air-pollution-and-cigarette-equivalence/ https://berkeleyearth.wpengine.com/air-pollution-and-cigaret... Delhi’s air pollution equivalent to smoking 50 cigarettes per day but experts say it can be fixed: https://epic.uchicago.in/delhis-air-pollution-equivalent-to-smoking-50-cigarettes-but-experts-say-it-can-be-fixed/ https://epic.uchicago.in/delhis-air-pollution-equivalent-to-... Almost all countries failing to meet mark for PM2.5, tiny particles expelled by vehicles and industry that can cause health problems: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/19/air-pollution-health-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/19/air-poll... Bees struggle to find flowers because of air pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434381 Cars and automobility have killed 60–80 million people since their invention. 1 in 34 deaths are caused by cars and automobility with 1,670,000 deaths per year. Car harm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465354 Gas stoves pollute homes with benzene, which is linked to cancer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364524 Amazon backs power plant that may become top source of US climate pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249971

thfuran 2mo ago
>Delhi’s air pollution equivalent to smoking 50 cigarettes Per day, which for some reason the headline didn’t include. Two packs a day is a pretty terrible baseline. At least it’s not addictive.
- thelastgallon 2mo ago
  Thanks for catching that, yes, per day is critical to understand the harm. I edited my post.
briandear 2mo ago
So you support nuclear power?
- thelastgallon 2mo ago
  I support solar. Democratize energy, everyone should have the right to produce and store energy. 1) Plug-in solar and batteries are plug-n-play. This is the first step to teach everyone energy literacy and numeracy. 2) Vertical panels immediately add 3 - 4 hours. Vertical panels have zero real estate cost and no need to build costly and slow transmission infrastructure. Every building in a city can produce energy. 3) EVs to store excess energy during the day and supply power back to the grid later. 1.8 billion vehicles connect 4 billion buildings. Buildings can produce clean energy and EVs can store energy. The lowest hanging fruit is to make sure all new buildings are built to produce, and all new vehicles are EVs. New buildings can be built with vertical panels and rooftop. The easiest thing to do is change building code, thats it. Then, we can deal with the built environment.
  - leonidasrup 2mo ago
    What source of energy will provide energy at night or bad weather? I would like to note that batteries at end of life are chemical waste and have to be disposed properly. "End of life electric vehicle batteries in China to 2060 and related resource management implications" https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-026-03555-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-026-03555-3 "The EOL batteries contain a wide range of toxic and hazardous materials that can leach into the soil and water, threatening human health and the environment. For example, lithium hexafluorophosphate (LiPF₆), a component in power batteries, hydrolyzes on contact with water to produce highly toxic hydrofluoric acid (HF). Additionally, cobalt, nickel, and organic solvents in the batteries can contaminate water and soil, leading to long-term ecological damage" https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30072026/china-ev-battery-recycling-safety-risks/ https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30072026/china-ev-battery...

infecto 2mo ago

That’s part of it but I also think education, no caste system, efficient corruption etc. I sometimes watch those Indian manufacturing videos and it amazes me how much India is living in the past.

brutaliz 2mo ago
[flagged]
expedition32 2mo ago
I live in a rich and socialist country. Guess who lives next to the highway...

ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago

> China has 350 million electric two-wheelers, 20 million EVs. And yet they have the most coal plants, and the most coal plants under construction. This comparison includes India. This is PM2.5 map of Beijing today: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=116.33,37.68,4377/loc=116.745,38.711 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... This is London: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=-1.54,51.50,3816/loc=-0.439,51.493 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... This is East USA: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=282.80,39.44,4118/loc=-75.808,39.937 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... They are not even close. For the kicks, here is Delhi today: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/surface/level/overlay=pm2.5/orthographic=74.60,24.00,1734/loc=77.795,27.668 https://earth.nullschool.net/#2026/08/20/0200Z/particulates/... Also lower than Beijing. (There's a hotspot to the west of Delhi due to wildfires.)

ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
Those electric 2, 3 and 4 wheelers and electric busses even if powered by coal fired electricity, will do less damage to city dwelling kids lungs than traditional engines would. And if the trend of China cleaning up their electricity supply continues (they just slipped under 50% coal) then even existing EVs will get cleaner every year with less pollution created at distant powerplants.
- ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago
  Pollution map don't lie... and what about kids who live near plants
  - codecutter 2mo ago
    Let's not compare Delhi or Mumbai in monsoon season. Get the readings from Delhi in summer or winter and then see the pollution yourself.

cineticdaffodil 2mo ago

[dead]

cluckindan 2mo ago

PM2.5 at 16 is pretty hard to believe.

everdrive 2mo ago
China probably does lie about its pm 2.5 numbers, but it also seems objectively true that they (and really nearly everyone) are doing much, much better than New Dehli.

silexia 2mo ago

You can't trust any numbers China reports.