3 ms·

> If I can download and run arbitrary code on my Mac--even if I have to jump through scary warnings--why should I not be able to do so on my phone? I just boug

> If I can download and run arbitrary code on my Mac--even if I have to jump through scary warnings--why should I not be able to do so on my phone? I just bought a new m5 macbook air. The day that I can't treat my MacOS laptop as basically a glorified NeXT workstation and install/run code of my own choice (albeit after going through a few scary warnings in the default user protecting system preferences, like allow to run unsigned code, etc), is the day I stop buying apple hardware and just use linux laptops again. I see news about apple thinking about "merging" MacOS and iOS and making a touch screen macbook and it really makes me think they are going to try to do this in the near future.

gcr 2mo ago
You already can’t download and run an unnotarized binary on M-series Macs without stripping the gatekeeper quarantine flag, so…
- walrus01 2mo ago
  yes, though the level of headache is relatively minimal. I meant I'd stop using it if things became completely impossible to run unsigned code (or the hassle went from a couple of extra seconds of work to some convoluted process) . Additionally something like this takes less than a minute to do once. https://donatstudios.com/mac-terminal-run-unsigned-binaries https://donatstudios.com/mac-terminal-run-unsigned-binaries
  - OJFord 2mo ago
    I can't see them doing anything that stops homebrew working.
    - johnofthesea 2mo ago
      On the other hand homebrew maintainers a deprecating software that is not signed (like Allacritty and Librecad).
  - eastbound 2mo ago
    SOC2 and other compliance frameworks will take charge of making those flags compulsory, with the threat of being uninsured and willfully personally responsible in case of breach. At least computers of all other normal workers would be locked down; Those of developers could have development tools but certainly shouldn't be able to connect to production servers or have customer invoicing data in them. Maybe buy two computers for developers with legal tasks? Win-win for Apple.
    - lokar 2mo ago
      Most large firms already use 3rd party tool to lockdown employee computers. Engineers are generally the exception.
  - whywhywhywhy 2mo ago
    > yes, though the level of headache is relatively minimal Minimal if you're technical, completely incomprehensible if you're not. I mean I know when the OS says "this application is damaged and should be deleted" that it's lying and there is a terminal command for it, I can never remember it off the top of my head. At least the right click open thing was something a normie could remember, but a non-technical person doesn't understand navigating a file structure and running a terminal command on a file with flags.
  - xorcist 2mo ago
    The water is fine! All you have to do is a little song and dance now and then, and you hardly even feel the heat. If it was boiling I'd be out of here in a jiffy.
- crest 2mo ago
  Running xattr -d to strip the quarantine flag is just a slight annoyance. I think next big outcry will be the removal of Rosetta 2.
  - PunchyHamster 2mo ago
    I believe the saying is "boiling the frog" "Oh it doesn't matter coz there is workaround" repeated over and over till there isn't any
  - johnofthesea 2mo ago
    First, Gatekeeper was introduced, but you could globally set in system preferences if unsigned software is enabled. Then this setting option was removed. What will come next? I do not know but I started to migrate off the ecosystem. Just in case. (At least on macOS one can still disable routined. Unlnike on iOS.)
  - artisinal 2mo ago
    Perhaps we will finally get a native Steam client!
ben_w 2mo ago
> is the day I stop buying apple hardware and just use linux laptops again. Kinda tempted to do that already just because of Liquid Glass. I mean, if I'm going to be stuck with a *nix OS whose UI is badly thought out and inconsistent between apps, might as well take the cheaper option, right?
- walrus01 2mo ago
  yeah, but if only suspend/resume worked near flawlessly... I've had MacOS crash on suspend or resume before, but I'd say it happens less than 1/10th of 1% of the time I sleep or resume my laptop.
doginasuit 2mo ago
Just use linux laptops! :) It is pretty clear where Apple/MS/Google OSes are headed, and it's a bad place.
- unlikelytomato 2mo ago
  For desktop and server, sure. MacBook is superior for everything that matters in a laptop. The touchpad alone is a dream. compare that to constant pain for the thousands of hours I will use the device over it's lifetime.
  - krzyk 2mo ago
    How is that touchpad better than any other? My wife has Macbook Air, I don't see any difference between touchpad on my linux Dell 5680 compared to the Macbook. It sounds similar to people that praise "haptic feedback" on phones, and describe feedback on some devices as extraordinary. (vibration device, seriously?) Macbook has nice hardware, if I can ignore the strange keyboard layout, although I would prefer bigger keyboard and smaller touchpad. Macbook software is something that is so bad compared to linux that I won't even comment.
    - m-p-3 2mo ago
      Maybe the touchpad is better than others, but using a touchpad is terrible in the first place. No way I'm not carrying a bluetooth mouse.
      - pezezin 2mo ago
        Glad to see I am not the only one. Many years ago I had a laptop with a pointing stick, aka "the clit", and that was surprisingly easy to use. But touchpads? No matter how fancy and expensive you make them, they will always be a bad interface.
    - dmonitor 2mo ago
      Haptic feedback touchpad is vastly superior to the button style. Less force required makes it easier to move your finger while the "button" is pressed. Most higher end laptops use it as the standard touchpad these days. MacOS is also well optimized for touchpads to the point that the traditional mouse experience is somewhat degraded. The smoothness and interactivity of the animations in response to touchpad gestures give a powerful placebo effect for how good the hardware is.
thatjoeoverthr 2mo ago
The "merging" is the "convergence" meme. Tech journos like it because they can say "the coming unification" and it has a kind of mythic taste and they're casual thinkers. If (when?) Apple goes down that path, their entire value prop will be dead and gone. The Linux Desktop will come as everything else simply decays.
DavideNL 2mo ago
> "is the day I stop buying apple hardware and just use linux laptops again." I bought a Linux laptop 1 or 2 years ago (after many years of using Macbooks), and was very surprised how well Linux works nowadays. As a matter of fact, in many areas Linux is even better than macOS. There's so many annoying bugs in macOS that interrupt your workflow on a daily basis. So, my Linux laptop is a lot more stable too. Would definitely recommend giving Linux a try (Unless maybe if you have very little "tech" knowledge. I would not recommend it to everyone and their grandmother just yet, since they probably aren't aware of the consequences and howto migrate things.) (for reference: EndeavourOS, KDE)
- walrus01 2mo ago
  It's not that I haven't given it a try, my primary desktop machine is debian stable and xfce4 with the libraries installed to also run a bunch of gnome and kde-native applications, but that right now I prefer macos for laptop use... Primarily due to suspend/resume working properly, the touchpad, and certain user interface things in MacOS that make working with a single smaller screen easier for extensive multitasking (expose hot corners of screen to quickly see all windows, switch windows, etc).
  - KetoManx64 2mo ago
    I use Asahi Linux as my M2 work laptop on a daily basis. Other than the lack of USB external display support, which I don't use, and sleep eating up about 1% of battery per hour it works incredibly well. I have an 13th gen Intel laptop that I got last year and Asahi just runs circles around it on Linux with just about everything.
  - 2III7 2mo ago
    I haven't had any suspend/resume issues for years on laptops with Linux. I've used multiple ThinkPads and Dell XPS machines. Currently rocking an ancient MacBook air from 2014 running Ubuntu which also doesn't have any issues.
  - esseph 2mo ago
    > (expose hot corners of screen to quickly see all windows, switch windows, etc). I do this in Gnome in Fedora 44, it may even be a default setting. > Primarily due to suspend/resume working properly Lenovo, have not had linux issues with a lenovo in over a decade.
sylens 2mo ago
There was a time I was worried about them doing this (during the touchbar Macbook era) but I think the Mac is once again viewed by Apple as extremely important. I think it's more likely we see a split of the iPad line in the next few years - Pros run macOS, whereas the base iPad, iPad Mini, and iPad Air continue to run iOS which is being modified for larger screens of foldables anyway. iPadOS goes away
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
fragmede 2mo ago
Apple is the worst about this. "It works on my computer" but it won't on your computer, because Apple will quarantine my code when it gets copied to your computer, so it can't run on your computer because it's "damaged". Unless I pay Apple $100/yr. Microsoft is worse these days, but that's no excuse.
danaris 2mo ago
There is no actual "news" about that, because it is, and always has been, bullshit. People talk about it every time Apple releases a new major OS update with UI changes that make macOS and iOS look similar, or a new laptop form factor, because it gets clicks. It's basically the new "Apple is Doomed!" (Which, in case you weren't paying attention to the tech press pre-2010, was the perennial narrative around them—and yes, it did take years after the runaway success of the iPhone for the stories to stop.)

gcr 2mo ago

You already can’t download and run an unnotarized binary on M-series Macs without stripping the gatekeeper quarantine flag, so…

walrus01 2mo ago
yes, though the level of headache is relatively minimal. I meant I'd stop using it if things became completely impossible to run unsigned code (or the hassle went from a couple of extra seconds of work to some convoluted process) . Additionally something like this takes less than a minute to do once. https://donatstudios.com/mac-terminal-run-unsigned-binaries https://donatstudios.com/mac-terminal-run-unsigned-binaries
- OJFord 2mo ago
  I can't see them doing anything that stops homebrew working.
  - johnofthesea 2mo ago
    On the other hand homebrew maintainers a deprecating software that is not signed (like Allacritty and Librecad).
- eastbound 2mo ago
  SOC2 and other compliance frameworks will take charge of making those flags compulsory, with the threat of being uninsured and willfully personally responsible in case of breach. At least computers of all other normal workers would be locked down; Those of developers could have development tools but certainly shouldn't be able to connect to production servers or have customer invoicing data in them. Maybe buy two computers for developers with legal tasks? Win-win for Apple.
  - lokar 2mo ago
    Most large firms already use 3rd party tool to lockdown employee computers. Engineers are generally the exception.
- whywhywhywhy 2mo ago
  > yes, though the level of headache is relatively minimal Minimal if you're technical, completely incomprehensible if you're not. I mean I know when the OS says "this application is damaged and should be deleted" that it's lying and there is a terminal command for it, I can never remember it off the top of my head. At least the right click open thing was something a normie could remember, but a non-technical person doesn't understand navigating a file structure and running a terminal command on a file with flags.
- xorcist 2mo ago
  The water is fine! All you have to do is a little song and dance now and then, and you hardly even feel the heat. If it was boiling I'd be out of here in a jiffy.
crest 2mo ago
Running xattr -d to strip the quarantine flag is just a slight annoyance. I think next big outcry will be the removal of Rosetta 2.
- PunchyHamster 2mo ago
  I believe the saying is "boiling the frog" "Oh it doesn't matter coz there is workaround" repeated over and over till there isn't any
- johnofthesea 2mo ago
  First, Gatekeeper was introduced, but you could globally set in system preferences if unsigned software is enabled. Then this setting option was removed. What will come next? I do not know but I started to migrate off the ecosystem. Just in case. (At least on macOS one can still disable routined. Unlnike on iOS.)
- artisinal 2mo ago
  Perhaps we will finally get a native Steam client!

ben_w 2mo ago

> is the day I stop buying apple hardware and just use linux laptops again. Kinda tempted to do that already just because of Liquid Glass. I mean, if I'm going to be stuck with a *nix OS whose UI is badly thought out and inconsistent between apps, might as well take the cheaper option, right?

walrus01 2mo ago
yeah, but if only suspend/resume worked near flawlessly... I've had MacOS crash on suspend or resume before, but I'd say it happens less than 1/10th of 1% of the time I sleep or resume my laptop.

doginasuit 2mo ago

Just use linux laptops! :) It is pretty clear where Apple/MS/Google OSes are headed, and it's a bad place.

unlikelytomato 2mo ago
For desktop and server, sure. MacBook is superior for everything that matters in a laptop. The touchpad alone is a dream. compare that to constant pain for the thousands of hours I will use the device over it's lifetime.
- krzyk 2mo ago
  How is that touchpad better than any other? My wife has Macbook Air, I don't see any difference between touchpad on my linux Dell 5680 compared to the Macbook. It sounds similar to people that praise "haptic feedback" on phones, and describe feedback on some devices as extraordinary. (vibration device, seriously?) Macbook has nice hardware, if I can ignore the strange keyboard layout, although I would prefer bigger keyboard and smaller touchpad. Macbook software is something that is so bad compared to linux that I won't even comment.
  - m-p-3 2mo ago
    Maybe the touchpad is better than others, but using a touchpad is terrible in the first place. No way I'm not carrying a bluetooth mouse.
    - pezezin 2mo ago
      Glad to see I am not the only one. Many years ago I had a laptop with a pointing stick, aka "the clit", and that was surprisingly easy to use. But touchpads? No matter how fancy and expensive you make them, they will always be a bad interface.
  - dmonitor 2mo ago
    Haptic feedback touchpad is vastly superior to the button style. Less force required makes it easier to move your finger while the "button" is pressed. Most higher end laptops use it as the standard touchpad these days. MacOS is also well optimized for touchpads to the point that the traditional mouse experience is somewhat degraded. The smoothness and interactivity of the animations in response to touchpad gestures give a powerful placebo effect for how good the hardware is.

thatjoeoverthr 2mo ago

The "merging" is the "convergence" meme. Tech journos like it because they can say "the coming unification" and it has a kind of mythic taste and they're casual thinkers. If (when?) Apple goes down that path, their entire value prop will be dead and gone. The Linux Desktop will come as everything else simply decays.

DavideNL 2mo ago

> "is the day I stop buying apple hardware and just use linux laptops again." I bought a Linux laptop 1 or 2 years ago (after many years of using Macbooks), and was very surprised how well Linux works nowadays. As a matter of fact, in many areas Linux is even better than macOS. There's so many annoying bugs in macOS that interrupt your workflow on a daily basis. So, my Linux laptop is a lot more stable too. Would definitely recommend giving Linux a try (Unless maybe if you have very little "tech" knowledge. I would not recommend it to everyone and their grandmother just yet, since they probably aren't aware of the consequences and howto migrate things.) (for reference: EndeavourOS, KDE)

walrus01 2mo ago
It's not that I haven't given it a try, my primary desktop machine is debian stable and xfce4 with the libraries installed to also run a bunch of gnome and kde-native applications, but that right now I prefer macos for laptop use... Primarily due to suspend/resume working properly, the touchpad, and certain user interface things in MacOS that make working with a single smaller screen easier for extensive multitasking (expose hot corners of screen to quickly see all windows, switch windows, etc).
- KetoManx64 2mo ago
  I use Asahi Linux as my M2 work laptop on a daily basis. Other than the lack of USB external display support, which I don't use, and sleep eating up about 1% of battery per hour it works incredibly well. I have an 13th gen Intel laptop that I got last year and Asahi just runs circles around it on Linux with just about everything.
- 2III7 2mo ago
  I haven't had any suspend/resume issues for years on laptops with Linux. I've used multiple ThinkPads and Dell XPS machines. Currently rocking an ancient MacBook air from 2014 running Ubuntu which also doesn't have any issues.
- esseph 2mo ago
  > (expose hot corners of screen to quickly see all windows, switch windows, etc). I do this in Gnome in Fedora 44, it may even be a default setting. > Primarily due to suspend/resume working properly Lenovo, have not had linux issues with a lenovo in over a decade.

sylens 2mo ago

There was a time I was worried about them doing this (during the touchbar Macbook era) but I think the Mac is once again viewed by Apple as extremely important. I think it's more likely we see a split of the iPad line in the next few years - Pros run macOS, whereas the base iPad, iPad Mini, and iPad Air continue to run iOS which is being modified for larger screens of foldables anyway. iPadOS goes away

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

fragmede 2mo ago

Apple is the worst about this. "It works on my computer" but it won't on your computer, because Apple will quarantine my code when it gets copied to your computer, so it can't run on your computer because it's "damaged". Unless I pay Apple $100/yr. Microsoft is worse these days, but that's no excuse.

danaris 2mo ago

There is no actual "news" about that, because it is, and always has been, bullshit. People talk about it every time Apple releases a new major OS update with UI changes that make macOS and iOS look similar, or a new laptop form factor, because it gets clicks. It's basically the new "Apple is Doomed!" (Which, in case you weren't paying attention to the tech press pre-2010, was the perennial narrative around them—and yes, it did take years after the runaway success of the iPhone for the stories to stop.)