6 ms·

This website still would have taken at least a week to make. It’s pretty nice for an open source project website. Between no website and shiny but crappy LLM w

This website still would have taken at least a week to make. It’s pretty nice for an open source project website. Between no website and shiny but crappy LLM website, I’ll take the latter, and I wouldn’t wish another 2 weeks of unpaid copy writing on any open source dev.

KennyBlanken 1mo ago
Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, and thus is likely full of security vulnerabilities, bugs, and so on. It may also mean that github issues are being reviewed by an AI, which opens the door up to the AI to malicious prompting.
- mastermage 1mo ago
  Dumb question but its because I genuinely do not know better. What is the security risk of what is as far as i understand a mouse driver with config options?
  - nobrains 1mo ago
    a mouse is an input device. most security challenges (passwords, etc.) are input via input devices. those are at a risk of being compromised. also clicks on an on-screen keyboard, etc. in fact, if u think about it, input device data (also know as telemetry - ironically, what we are trying to prevent in the first place by the logi app to do) security is a very serious potential attack vector.
  - mzronek 1mo ago
    For downloadable software there is the risk of a supply chain attack. The website is altered to provide a download with a malware-infected version of the software. See the recent hack on CPU-Z: https://gist.github.com/N3mes1s/b5b0b96782b9f832819d2db7c6684f84 https://gist.github.com/N3mes1s/b5b0b96782b9f832819d2db7c668...
    - deadbunny 1mo ago
      That's a problem wether AI is involved or not.
      - breezybottom 1mo ago
        Sure, but LLM use is a warning sign of developer laziness.
        awwaiid 1mo ago
        If they can get impatience and hubris in there then they are doing great! https://thethreevirtues.com/ https://thethreevirtues.com/
- soulofmischief 1mo ago
  Right you are, Ken. With the amount of new low-effort software we can expect to see over the next decade, taste becomes a hallmark.
- colinb 1mo ago
  I think I strongly disagree with your first sentence. Strongly. I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English to know that the two are not an uncommon combination. Last year, I worked with someone whose first language was something from China - no idea which flavour - and they would often pass their written comms through an LLM. I could tell when they had done so by the onset of sudden grammatical correctness. But I don't think they were doing this with the intention of deceiving, merely of communicating clearly and correctly. Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this. Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
  - KronisLV 1mo ago
    > I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English What about people with fine English and terrible coding skills? What about people with both terrible English and terrible coding skills? > Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this. Personally, I find AI writing as insufferable as anyone else (though Anthropic's is particularly bad, maybe just due to my familiarity with it), but I wouldn't judge individuals for using it to make communication more readable, rephrase what they mean etc. If anything, any difficulty in reading my prose would support that. > Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation. I guess a lot depends on how you use the LLMs (I bet horrible coding skills coincide with horribly lazy and problematic usage of LLMs for development too), but I wonder how humans actually stack up to the slop-machine when it comes to how good or bad the code they produce is on average, since I'm sure that SOTA model code by now tends towards the upper end of that. In other words, if a person wants to limit themselves to avoiding LLM code over fears of it being bad, they would also have to avoid any any all code written by people that essentially produced the problematic training dataset, as well as any programmers with the same capabilities (or lack thereof). You'd basically have to avoid using a lot/most of the software out there if that's your quality standard.
- mlrtime 1mo ago
  [flagged]
- mlfreeman 1mo ago
  > Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, please provide some kind of statistics to back up this claim.
trelbutate 1mo ago
Okay, but how about a shiny LLM website but with human-written text that's actually nice to read and not some unedited AI output? That doesn't take a week.
- areoform 1mo ago
  Yes, it takes a month or two. Depends on the project.
  - flexagoon 1mo ago
    People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months? According to wordcounter.net, this landing page has 850 words. Most of that is just LLM fluff that could easily be removed, but even if you want to keep the original size, to spend two months on this you have to be writing less than 15 words a day.
    - darkwater 1mo ago
      > People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months? What the h... I mean, it's an opensource software to make Logitech's users life less miserable, and you are comparing that to the effort of a student writing an essay, where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay?
      - flexagoon 1mo ago
        > where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay? Writing 850 words shouldn't take you two months even if you only have 10 minutes a day to spend on it. The discussion is about the short description on the product's website, not the product/code itself.
        jasonlotito 1mo ago
        Writing 850 words is not difficult. Writing the right 850 words can take a lifetime.
renegade-otter 1mo ago
You can be a seasoned engineer but making websites is still a major b**. The small tasks required to make it "presentable" site just compound, until you just don't even want to do it. Thank you Lordy for LLMs because I am going to hurt myself if I ever have to design and wire another contact form.
- walrus01 1mo ago
  One of the reasons why people just go "meh, whatever, good enough" and install wordpress, use some popular wordpress contact form. Have it give mail to a postfix daemon on same server that listens only on localhost and relays outbound via your own infra. Or similar. A base wordpress install is pretty hard to screw up if you don't start adding weird plugins to it, and it will auto-update itself by default. I can't even imagine taking the time now to do this by hand.
paxys 1mo ago
A simple website that conveys all the information in this one would have taken less than an hour to make. There’s no need for all the bells and whistles for a project like this.

KennyBlanken 1mo ago

Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, and thus is likely full of security vulnerabilities, bugs, and so on. It may also mean that github issues are being reviewed by an AI, which opens the door up to the AI to malicious prompting.

mastermage 1mo ago
Dumb question but its because I genuinely do not know better. What is the security risk of what is as far as i understand a mouse driver with config options?
- nobrains 1mo ago
  a mouse is an input device. most security challenges (passwords, etc.) are input via input devices. those are at a risk of being compromised. also clicks on an on-screen keyboard, etc. in fact, if u think about it, input device data (also know as telemetry - ironically, what we are trying to prevent in the first place by the logi app to do) security is a very serious potential attack vector.
- mzronek 1mo ago
  For downloadable software there is the risk of a supply chain attack. The website is altered to provide a download with a malware-infected version of the software. See the recent hack on CPU-Z: https://gist.github.com/N3mes1s/b5b0b96782b9f832819d2db7c6684f84 https://gist.github.com/N3mes1s/b5b0b96782b9f832819d2db7c668...
  - deadbunny 1mo ago
    That's a problem wether AI is involved or not.
    - breezybottom 1mo ago
      Sure, but LLM use is a warning sign of developer laziness.
      - awwaiid 1mo ago
        If they can get impatience and hubris in there then they are doing great! https://thethreevirtues.com/ https://thethreevirtues.com/
soulofmischief 1mo ago
Right you are, Ken. With the amount of new low-effort software we can expect to see over the next decade, taste becomes a hallmark.
colinb 1mo ago
I think I strongly disagree with your first sentence. Strongly. I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English to know that the two are not an uncommon combination. Last year, I worked with someone whose first language was something from China - no idea which flavour - and they would often pass their written comms through an LLM. I could tell when they had done so by the onset of sudden grammatical correctness. But I don't think they were doing this with the intention of deceiving, merely of communicating clearly and correctly. Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this. Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
- KronisLV 1mo ago
  > I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English What about people with fine English and terrible coding skills? What about people with both terrible English and terrible coding skills? > Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this. Personally, I find AI writing as insufferable as anyone else (though Anthropic's is particularly bad, maybe just due to my familiarity with it), but I wouldn't judge individuals for using it to make communication more readable, rephrase what they mean etc. If anything, any difficulty in reading my prose would support that. > Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation. I guess a lot depends on how you use the LLMs (I bet horrible coding skills coincide with horribly lazy and problematic usage of LLMs for development too), but I wonder how humans actually stack up to the slop-machine when it comes to how good or bad the code they produce is on average, since I'm sure that SOTA model code by now tends towards the upper end of that. In other words, if a person wants to limit themselves to avoiding LLM code over fears of it being bad, they would also have to avoid any any all code written by people that essentially produced the problematic training dataset, as well as any programmers with the same capabilities (or lack thereof). You'd basically have to avoid using a lot/most of the software out there if that's your quality standard.
mlrtime 1mo ago
[flagged]
mlfreeman 1mo ago
> Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, please provide some kind of statistics to back up this claim.

trelbutate 1mo ago

Okay, but how about a shiny LLM website but with human-written text that's actually nice to read and not some unedited AI output? That doesn't take a week.

areoform 1mo ago
Yes, it takes a month or two. Depends on the project.
- flexagoon 1mo ago
  People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months? According to wordcounter.net, this landing page has 850 words. Most of that is just LLM fluff that could easily be removed, but even if you want to keep the original size, to spend two months on this you have to be writing less than 15 words a day.
  - darkwater 1mo ago
    > People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months? What the h... I mean, it's an opensource software to make Logitech's users life less miserable, and you are comparing that to the effort of a student writing an essay, where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay?
    - flexagoon 1mo ago
      > where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay? Writing 850 words shouldn't take you two months even if you only have 10 minutes a day to spend on it. The discussion is about the short description on the product's website, not the product/code itself.
      - jasonlotito 1mo ago
        Writing 850 words is not difficult. Writing the right 850 words can take a lifetime.

renegade-otter 1mo ago

You can be a seasoned engineer but making websites is still a major b**. The small tasks required to make it "presentable" site just compound, until you just don't even want to do it. Thank you Lordy for LLMs because I am going to hurt myself if I ever have to design and wire another contact form.

walrus01 1mo ago
One of the reasons why people just go "meh, whatever, good enough" and install wordpress, use some popular wordpress contact form. Have it give mail to a postfix daemon on same server that listens only on localhost and relays outbound via your own infra. Or similar. A base wordpress install is pretty hard to screw up if you don't start adding weird plugins to it, and it will auto-update itself by default. I can't even imagine taking the time now to do this by hand.

paxys 1mo ago

A simple website that conveys all the information in this one would have taken less than an hour to make. There’s no need for all the bells and whistles for a project like this.