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“In one notable technique, their prompts asked Claude to imagine and articulate the internal reasoning behind a completed response and write it out step by step

by Barbing 2mo ago

“In one notable technique, their prompts asked Claude to imagine and articulate the internal reasoning behind a completed response and write it out step by step—effectively generating chain-of-thought training data at scale. We also observed tasks in which Claude was used to generate censorship-safe alternatives to politically sensitive queries like questions about dissidents, party leaders, or authoritarianism, likely in order to train DeepSeek’s own models to steer conversations away from censored topics. By examining request metadata, we were able to trace these accounts to specific researchers at the lab.” — “You are an expert data analyst combining statistical rigor with deep domain knowledge. Your goal is to deliver data-driven insights — not summaries or visualizations — grounded in real data and supported by complete and transparent reasoning.” (variations appearing 10s of 1000s of times) https://www.anthropic.com/news/detecting-and-preventing-distillation-attacks https://www.anthropic.com/news/detecting-and-preventing-dist... Does Dario have the same relationship with the truth as Sam? (Their companies pirate books and develop products that compete at some level with those books’ authors, so obviously neither are that wonderfully trustworthy, so maybe “no evidence” meant you don’t believe this evidence rather than you weren’t aware of it. I would understand and respect your lack of belief!)

maxdo 2mo ago
When they do that they pay billions . Unlike China. That’s the order of law vs bunch of companies in a totalitarian government
- alightsoul 2mo ago
  They are not paying billions anymore. They just switched to buying and then destroying books. Arguably that's worse than training off of Anna's archive which Chinese companies still do. This comment is another example of American exceptionalism.
  - maxdo 2mo ago
    They paid $1.5 billions in July . Keep ignoring facts and believe in some nonsense
    - alightsoul 2mo ago
      That was a one time payment. Another example of America exceptionalism assuming its a periodic payment like paying rent. look how they give money to publishers who then give back crumbs to the authors themselves.
      - maxdo 2mo ago
        Who told you it’s periodic ? To find a stolen book in llm is very easy . And if you break same rules twice any judge will fine you more for that . You break you pay . That’s why in the western world you got book publishers . They have lawyers etc . If you prefer Chinese way : laugh at anyone who is taking about copyright , whether that a book , a model , or manufacturing secrets in eu , us or whatever sure . A family business of my friend in eu was destroyed due to stealing until every single bolt position design of their system by China . They had no legal protection . Keep calling rule of law vs no such rules an American exceptionalism .
  - jimbob45 2mo ago
    Can you really hold them responsible for book burning when they’re being compelled to do so by governmental laws? Seems like you should be pointing your finger at lawmakers, if anywhere.
    - alightsoul 2mo ago
      Me? A lowly commoner without hundreds of millions to lobby them? Why aren't American ai companies doing so? Too busy training models? They're shooting themselves in the foot when they could just use Anna's archive and lobbying is cheaper than paying billions in copyright settlements. Oh wait I am wrong. Shredding and scanning books is much cheaper than lobbying to use Anna's archive. Still can't do anything because I don't have money for lobbying
    - brazukadev 2mo ago
      shouldn't you be pointing fingers at lawmakers and not to OP?
    - maxdo 2mo ago
      You pay royalties to your publisher . They monitor situation , if a model has unfair amount of context about the book they bring you to court . Once they win they spread some money between owners + keep some money to fight future violations on the scale since it’s profitable for book publishers. It’s economically lucrative for everyone in that chain to attack again and again ai vendors , unless they are in China . In this case they can only cry .
  - maxdo 2mo ago
    You know that buying a book vs buying a license is a very different purchase right ? And it does not work legally this way . Stop spreading made up stories
alightsoul 2mo ago
That's what any harness could do. By itself it's not evidence of distillation. Just mentioning Deepseek in there is just fear mongering, again American exceptionalism, which creates the belief only the US has the right to own cutting edge technology. It's a disservice to the entire world, and china happens to be the only challenger to that belief. They surely also asked for tasks to avoid mentioning Trump's involvement in the Epstein files and CP, but don't mention those, due to American exceptionalism. Dario has stated that he is an American exceptionalist. He powers Israeli/US bombings in Gaza, but only cares when China does the same. This is evidence only if you're an American exceptionalist.
- Barbing 2mo ago
  One can, say, hate America and feel its lunch is about to be munched by China and still read: “These labs generated over 16 million exchanges with Claude through approximately 24,000 fraudulent accounts…” and think “oh, there’s alleged evidence of distillation“.
  - alightsoul 2mo ago
    The source is just anthropic saying what they believe and not providing any evidence beyond what they say. No raw chat logs to analyze independently. That's American exceptionalism
    - Barbing 2mo ago
      It’s not as trustworthy as it could be. Are you using the term as commonly known? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism Seymour Martin Lipset, a prominent American political scientist and sociologist, argues that the United States is exceptional in that it started from a revolutionary event. He therefore traces the origins of American exceptionalism to the American Revolution, from which the U.S. emerged as "the first new nation" with a distinct ideology, and having a unique mission to transform the world. This ideology, which Lipset calls "Americanism" but is often also referred to as "American exceptionalism", is based on liberty, individualism, republicanism, democracy, meritocracy, and laissez-faire economics; these principles are sometimes collectively referred to as "American exceptionalism". As a term in political science, American exceptionalism refers to the United States' status as a global outlier both in good and bad ways. Critics of the concept say that the idea of American exceptionalism suggests that the U.S. is better than other countries, has a superior culture, or has a unique mission to transform the planet and its inhabitants. Like, when I consider the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments or MK Ultra, or Flock, I have bad things to say about them but American exceptionalism specifically wouldn’t cross my mind. Corporations anywhere playing a card close to the chest or even lying… superiority, exceptionalism, aren’t my top reference points.

by Barbing 2mo ago

maxdo 2mo ago

When they do that they pay billions . Unlike China. That’s the order of law vs bunch of companies in a totalitarian government

alightsoul 2mo ago
They are not paying billions anymore. They just switched to buying and then destroying books. Arguably that's worse than training off of Anna's archive which Chinese companies still do. This comment is another example of American exceptionalism.
- maxdo 2mo ago
  They paid $1.5 billions in July . Keep ignoring facts and believe in some nonsense
  - alightsoul 2mo ago
    That was a one time payment. Another example of America exceptionalism assuming its a periodic payment like paying rent. look how they give money to publishers who then give back crumbs to the authors themselves.
    - maxdo 2mo ago
      Who told you it’s periodic ? To find a stolen book in llm is very easy . And if you break same rules twice any judge will fine you more for that . You break you pay . That’s why in the western world you got book publishers . They have lawyers etc . If you prefer Chinese way : laugh at anyone who is taking about copyright , whether that a book , a model , or manufacturing secrets in eu , us or whatever sure . A family business of my friend in eu was destroyed due to stealing until every single bolt position design of their system by China . They had no legal protection . Keep calling rule of law vs no such rules an American exceptionalism .
- jimbob45 2mo ago
  Can you really hold them responsible for book burning when they’re being compelled to do so by governmental laws? Seems like you should be pointing your finger at lawmakers, if anywhere.
  - alightsoul 2mo ago
    Me? A lowly commoner without hundreds of millions to lobby them? Why aren't American ai companies doing so? Too busy training models? They're shooting themselves in the foot when they could just use Anna's archive and lobbying is cheaper than paying billions in copyright settlements. Oh wait I am wrong. Shredding and scanning books is much cheaper than lobbying to use Anna's archive. Still can't do anything because I don't have money for lobbying
  - brazukadev 2mo ago
    shouldn't you be pointing fingers at lawmakers and not to OP?
  - maxdo 2mo ago
    You pay royalties to your publisher . They monitor situation , if a model has unfair amount of context about the book they bring you to court . Once they win they spread some money between owners + keep some money to fight future violations on the scale since it’s profitable for book publishers. It’s economically lucrative for everyone in that chain to attack again and again ai vendors , unless they are in China . In this case they can only cry .
- maxdo 2mo ago
  You know that buying a book vs buying a license is a very different purchase right ? And it does not work legally this way . Stop spreading made up stories

alightsoul 2mo ago

That's what any harness could do. By itself it's not evidence of distillation. Just mentioning Deepseek in there is just fear mongering, again American exceptionalism, which creates the belief only the US has the right to own cutting edge technology. It's a disservice to the entire world, and china happens to be the only challenger to that belief. They surely also asked for tasks to avoid mentioning Trump's involvement in the Epstein files and CP, but don't mention those, due to American exceptionalism. Dario has stated that he is an American exceptionalist. He powers Israeli/US bombings in Gaza, but only cares when China does the same. This is evidence only if you're an American exceptionalist.

Barbing 2mo ago
One can, say, hate America and feel its lunch is about to be munched by China and still read: “These labs generated over 16 million exchanges with Claude through approximately 24,000 fraudulent accounts…” and think “oh, there’s alleged evidence of distillation“.
- alightsoul 2mo ago
  The source is just anthropic saying what they believe and not providing any evidence beyond what they say. No raw chat logs to analyze independently. That's American exceptionalism
  - Barbing 2mo ago
    It’s not as trustworthy as it could be. Are you using the term as commonly known? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism Seymour Martin Lipset, a prominent American political scientist and sociologist, argues that the United States is exceptional in that it started from a revolutionary event. He therefore traces the origins of American exceptionalism to the American Revolution, from which the U.S. emerged as "the first new nation" with a distinct ideology, and having a unique mission to transform the world. This ideology, which Lipset calls "Americanism" but is often also referred to as "American exceptionalism", is based on liberty, individualism, republicanism, democracy, meritocracy, and laissez-faire economics; these principles are sometimes collectively referred to as "American exceptionalism". As a term in political science, American exceptionalism refers to the United States' status as a global outlier both in good and bad ways. Critics of the concept say that the idea of American exceptionalism suggests that the U.S. is better than other countries, has a superior culture, or has a unique mission to transform the planet and its inhabitants. Like, when I consider the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments or MK Ultra, or Flock, I have bad things to say about them but American exceptionalism specifically wouldn’t cross my mind. Corporations anywhere playing a card close to the chest or even lying… superiority, exceptionalism, aren’t my top reference points.