7 ms·

Then perhaps we’re seeing one of the downsides of that. When 0->1 is prohibitively expensive, existing players can continue to raise prices very high because

Then perhaps we’re seeing one of the downsides of that. When 0->1 is prohibitively expensive, existing players can continue to raise prices *very* high because cost-of-entry is extreme, until it’s not sufficiently extreme. And then we have bubble issues because the introduction of a new, cheaper player, causes the bottom to fall out and for the circumstances that allowed the new manufacturer to exist to completely go away.

leni536 2mo ago
In addition of being expensive, it's also a gamble. If it wasn't risky then I don't think financing it would be that big of an issue.
dist-epoch 2mo ago
This is also caused by the FREE market - consolidation, all markets tend to consolidate around a few companies due to economy of scale. The fix is regulation - we are going to have NOT-FREE-MARKET electricity, NOT-FREE-MARKET water supply, .... for vital services. I'm not talking about you, it's funny to see anti-regulation HN complain about a FREE MARKET working as such. Suddenly it's not so fun where you are at the losing end of the free market when it turns out some are willing to pay way more for RAM than you are.
- carlosjobim 2mo ago
  Everybody needs electricity and water, but nobody needs more RAM except for companies. And they can pay for it.
  - Iolaum 2mo ago
    Hello!? Us consumers need it too.
    - doubled112 2mo ago
      Really depends how you're defining "need". Will you die without it? Will your life as you know it end if your next phone has 8GB instead of 12GB?
      - cgriswald 2mo ago
        Those questions can’t get to the root of how the GGP is using the word for two reasons: 1. Companies, not being alive, can’t possibly need in this sense without analogy. 2. The poster included electricity as something everybody needs but there are people surviving without it.
    - carlosjobim 2mo ago
      You need 8GB at the very most, which isn't out of reach for any consumer. If you need more, then you are a professional and can afford more. Or you are a hobbyist, and your hobby doesn't deserve any subsidies from the hard working tax payer.
      - pfdietz 2mo ago
        > You need 8GB at the very most I call total bullshit on that. I need more.
        carlosjobim 2mo ago
        Why would you need more compute power than other people? An 8GB machine is already way beyond capable for anything a consumer - and most professional - can throw at it. And why in the world should the government force tax payers to subsidize your extraordinary computing needs?
        HDBaseT 2mo ago
        Have you ever used a computer?
        carlosjobim 2mo ago
        No, have you?
  - paunchy 2mo ago
    You can travel to the ends of the earth, to a village down miles and miles of dirt roads and still see someone bent over their phone. People buy RAM.
  - pfdietz 2mo ago
    > but nobody needs more RAM except for companies. I'm amazed you could write this in apparent seriousness.
    - carlosjobim 2mo ago
      Be so kind then and tell me what a normal citizen would need more than 8GB of RAM for, if it isn't for professional work or a specialized hobby? A Mac with 8GB of RAM is blazingly fast for any task your average person would need for it to do. Which doesn't include gaming, mining crypto, or heavy AI models. Maybe I've missed something? So please tell me exactly what task requires more than 8GB of RAM which is so necessary for the average citizen that the government should subsidize it?
      - HDBaseT 2mo ago
        A Windows 11 machine with 8GB of memory is borderline unusable. We can go in circles about how developers need to optimize their applications, etc but truth of the matter is that 8GB is considered pretty low for a lot of "average" use cases. MacOS is an exception to the rule and even 8GB on MacOS is limited with multiple Electron apps.
        carlosjobim 2mo ago
        And why should the government and the tax payers be held responsible and be forced to pay for the bad decisions of Microsoft and their customers? MacOS is not limited in any way for the needs an average citizen has from computers. The average citizen is even fine with an iPad. 8GB is considered "low" by people here, just like a 170 horse power hatchback is considered "low" by muscle car enthusiasts and mining companies looking for dump trucks. But those uses have no bearing on reality for most people.
        pfdietz 2mo ago
        > And why should the government and the tax payers be held responsible and be forced to pay for the bad decisions of Microsoft and their customers? Ah, a motte and bailey argument! I always love those. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

Then perhaps we’re seeing one of the downsides of that. When 0->1 is prohibitively expensive, existing players can continue to raise prices *very* high because

leni536 2mo ago

In addition of being expensive, it's also a gamble. If it wasn't risky then I don't think financing it would be that big of an issue.

dist-epoch 2mo ago

This is also caused by the FREE market - consolidation, all markets tend to consolidate around a few companies due to economy of scale. The fix is regulation - we are going to have NOT-FREE-MARKET electricity, NOT-FREE-MARKET water supply, .... for vital services. I'm not talking about you, it's funny to see anti-regulation HN complain about a FREE MARKET working as such. Suddenly it's not so fun where you are at the losing end of the free market when it turns out some are willing to pay way more for RAM than you are.

carlosjobim 2mo ago
Everybody needs electricity and water, but nobody needs more RAM except for companies. And they can pay for it.
- Iolaum 2mo ago
  Hello!? Us consumers need it too.
  - doubled112 2mo ago
    Really depends how you're defining "need". Will you die without it? Will your life as you know it end if your next phone has 8GB instead of 12GB?
    - cgriswald 2mo ago
      Those questions can’t get to the root of how the GGP is using the word for two reasons: 1. Companies, not being alive, can’t possibly need in this sense without analogy. 2. The poster included electricity as something everybody needs but there are people surviving without it.
  - carlosjobim 2mo ago
    You need 8GB at the very most, which isn't out of reach for any consumer. If you need more, then you are a professional and can afford more. Or you are a hobbyist, and your hobby doesn't deserve any subsidies from the hard working tax payer.
    - pfdietz 2mo ago
      > You need 8GB at the very most I call total bullshit on that. I need more.
      - carlosjobim 2mo ago
        Why would you need more compute power than other people? An 8GB machine is already way beyond capable for anything a consumer - and most professional - can throw at it. And why in the world should the government force tax payers to subsidize your extraordinary computing needs?
        HDBaseT 2mo ago
        Have you ever used a computer?
        carlosjobim 2mo ago
        No, have you?
- paunchy 2mo ago
  You can travel to the ends of the earth, to a village down miles and miles of dirt roads and still see someone bent over their phone. People buy RAM.
- pfdietz 2mo ago
  > but nobody needs more RAM except for companies. I'm amazed you could write this in apparent seriousness.
  - carlosjobim 2mo ago
    Be so kind then and tell me what a normal citizen would need more than 8GB of RAM for, if it isn't for professional work or a specialized hobby? A Mac with 8GB of RAM is blazingly fast for any task your average person would need for it to do. Which doesn't include gaming, mining crypto, or heavy AI models. Maybe I've missed something? So please tell me exactly what task requires more than 8GB of RAM which is so necessary for the average citizen that the government should subsidize it?
    - HDBaseT 2mo ago
      A Windows 11 machine with 8GB of memory is borderline unusable. We can go in circles about how developers need to optimize their applications, etc but truth of the matter is that 8GB is considered pretty low for a lot of "average" use cases. MacOS is an exception to the rule and even 8GB on MacOS is limited with multiple Electron apps.
      - carlosjobim 2mo ago
        And why should the government and the tax payers be held responsible and be forced to pay for the bad decisions of Microsoft and their customers? MacOS is not limited in any way for the needs an average citizen has from computers. The average citizen is even fine with an iPad. 8GB is considered "low" by people here, just like a 170 horse power hatchback is considered "low" by muscle car enthusiasts and mining companies looking for dump trucks. But those uses have no bearing on reality for most people.
        pfdietz 2mo ago
        > And why should the government and the tax payers be held responsible and be forced to pay for the bad decisions of Microsoft and their customers? Ah, a motte and bailey argument! I always love those. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy