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> The democratically elected government of the Palestinians in Gaza There's no such thing: the separate authority in Gaza was produced by Israeli military isol

> The democratically elected government of the Palestinians in Gaza There's no such thing: the separate authority in Gaza was produced by Israeli military isolation of the separate parts of Palestine nominally administered by the PA, and how that facilitated Hamas local victory there in the intra-Palestinian civil war against the central government. Also, the elections that were won by Hamas candidates before that were before most currently living Gazans were born, much less eligible to vote, and subsequent elections have not been held because Israel blocked the all-Palestine elections agreed to by Hamas and Fatah, so even if the “government of Palestinians in Gaza” were simply a direct result of those elections, which it is not, it would hardly be the “democratically elected” by those currently governed.

jameshilliard 2mo ago
> There's no such thing: the separate authority in Gaza was produced by Israeli military isolation of the separate parts of Palestine nominally administered by the PA, and how that facilitated Hamas local victory there in the intra-Palestinian civil war against the central government. The election that brought Hamas to power in Gaza was widely considered to be free and fair.[0] > Also, the elections that were won by Hamas candidates before that were before most currently living Gazans were born, much less eligible to vote, and subsequent elections have not been held because Israel blocked the all-Palestine elections agreed to by Hamas and Fatah, so even if the “government of Palestinians in Gaza” were simply a direct result of those elections, which it is not, it would hardly be the “democratically elected” by those currently governed. And yet polling indicates if another vote was held Hamas would likely still win, in both Gaza and the West Bank, so it's essentially a moot point. It's not just Israel that has blocked elections, Fatah has also not wanted elections because they know they would lose. The problem is that Palestinians have in reality largely supported extremists far more than moderates, that may change but reducing Palestinian support for extremism is ultimately what needs to change for there to be a chance at having some long term peace agreement. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#Independent_Observer_reactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_e...
- watutalkinbout 2mo ago
  A lot of Jews in the Polish Ghettos were pretty extremist.
  - jameshilliard 1mo ago
    > A lot of Jews in the Polish Ghettos were pretty extremist. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were not going around killing German civilians.
    - watutalkinbout 1mo ago
      Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off in November 1940 by a wall more than 10 feet high, with barbed wire and guarded gates. German authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between the ghetto and the rest of Warsaw. Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes.
      - jameshilliard 1mo ago
        > Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off in November 1940 by a wall more than 10 feet high, with barbed wire and guarded gates. France was sealed off in 1938 by a line of concrete fortifications, obstacles and weapon installations called the Maginot Line. > German authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between the ghetto and the rest of Warsaw. French authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between Germany and the rest of France. > Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes. Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes.
        watutalkinbout 1mo ago
        I'm pretty sure French guards didn't prevent movement between Germany and the rest of France.
        jameshilliard 1mo ago

jameshilliard 2mo ago

> There's no such thing: the separate authority in Gaza was produced by Israeli military isolation of the separate parts of Palestine nominally administered by the PA, and how that facilitated Hamas local victory there in the intra-Palestinian civil war against the central government. The election that brought Hamas to power in Gaza was widely considered to be free and fair.[0] > Also, the elections that were won by Hamas candidates before that were before most currently living Gazans were born, much less eligible to vote, and subsequent elections have not been held because Israel blocked the all-Palestine elections agreed to by Hamas and Fatah, so even if the “government of Palestinians in Gaza” were simply a direct result of those elections, which it is not, it would hardly be the “democratically elected” by those currently governed. And yet polling indicates if another vote was held Hamas would likely still win, in both Gaza and the West Bank, so it's essentially a moot point. It's not just Israel that has blocked elections, Fatah has also not wanted elections because they know they would lose. The problem is that Palestinians have in reality largely supported extremists far more than moderates, that may change but reducing Palestinian support for extremism is ultimately what needs to change for there to be a chance at having some long term peace agreement. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#Independent_Observer_reactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_e...

watutalkinbout 2mo ago
A lot of Jews in the Polish Ghettos were pretty extremist.
- jameshilliard 1mo ago
  > A lot of Jews in the Polish Ghettos were pretty extremist. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were not going around killing German civilians.
  - watutalkinbout 1mo ago
    Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off in November 1940 by a wall more than 10 feet high, with barbed wire and guarded gates. German authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between the ghetto and the rest of Warsaw. Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes.
    - jameshilliard 1mo ago
      > Warsaw Ghetto was sealed off in November 1940 by a wall more than 10 feet high, with barbed wire and guarded gates. France was sealed off in 1938 by a line of concrete fortifications, obstacles and weapon installations called the Maginot Line. > German authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between the ghetto and the rest of Warsaw. French authorities specifically used the guards to prevent movement between Germany and the rest of France. > Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes. Sounds familiar - as I said, history rhymes.
      - watutalkinbout 1mo ago
        I'm pretty sure French guards didn't prevent movement between Germany and the rest of France.
        jameshilliard 1mo ago