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>For App Store apps that link out of the app to complete purchases, the commission will be 15 percent. Developers in the programs mentioned above will pay a red
by ApolloFortyNine 2mo ago
>For App Store apps that link out of the app to complete purchases, the commission will be 15 percent. Developers in the programs mentioned above will pay a reduced rate of 10 percent.
This is one of the most 'evil' policies I've simply ever heard of. I know today it's not even allowed to mention it, but it seems like the most slam dunk monopoly abuse possible. The damage to customers is clear, a company could charge 15% less and receive the same amount if they were simply 'allowed' to tell customers to go to their site. Somehow Fortnite did exactly this, got banned for it, and it still wasn't enough to put an end to it.
- twoodfin 2mo agoWhich monopoly is Apple abusing?
- ApolloFortyNine 2mo agoiPhone apps. If it helps, think if Windows apps had a 5% Microsoft tax and had to be approved by Apple.
- twoodfin 2mo agoI assume you mean approved by Microsoft. When they were found in the US to have a monopoly, they had around 95% of personal computer operating system share. Apple isn’t even close.
- mvdtnz 2mo agoReally? What would you estimate is Apple's market share of iPhone apps if it's so far below 95%?
- syradar 2mo agoWe both know that the market share refers to the smartphone market share of which Apple has about 21%. For iPhone apps Apple is way behind with about 0.005% of the total 2.17 million iPhone apps.
- alkonaut 2mo agoThe ONLY interesting market share here isn't how many apps Apple create, or how large share of the smartphones they have. It's how much of the distribution of apps they control on iOS (which easily reaches the bar of being a market in itself). I.e. the monopoly question is: if apple takes X% for each app in this market, and a competitor can't take less, then it's a monopoly.
- NetMageSCW 2mo agoThe only interesting market is comments labels as from alkonaut and if no one else can make such a comment, that is monopoly that should be regulated.
- alkonaut 2mo agoYes indeed if this wad important enough in people’s lives or the economy as a whole I should be regulated, divided or possibly even nationalized.
- happymellon 2mo agoJust because they took too long to look at a problem, does not stop something else from being a problem.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- like_any_other 2mo ago'Monopoly' is the wrong term. It's abuse of market power.
- subarctic 2mo agoApple and google essentially own 99%+ of the smartphone market, so it's not that different from a monopoly
- Gud 2mo agoDistribution of software on iOS?
- pjmlp 2mo agoThat isn't one by law.
- IneffablePigeon 2mo agoWhich law? Seems like it is under EU law.
- pjmlp 2mo agoAny country in the world with working democracy, there is a very precise definition of what monopoly is.
- happymellon 2mo ago> In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge overly high prices, which is associated with unfair price raises.[3] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[3] All countries with a working democracy would class Apple as a monopoly as it has significant market power, enough to distort prices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
- pjmlp 2mo agoNot for the nerd definition of iOS as a market. The market is mobile devices.
- AnthonyMouse 2mo agoA market is the set of things which are fungible substitutes for each other. Essentially every brand of gasoline is in the same market. By contrast, gasoline and diesel are separate markets, because some vehicles require gasoline and can't use diesel and others the other way around. They're not substitutes when your vehicle can only use one of them and you can't get out of it by trying to claim that the market is all types of fuel. Now suppose you have an iPhone and want to download an app, or want to distribute your app to customers many of which have an iPhone. What substitute for Apple's store is available to do that?
- ascorbic 2mo agoEU law doesn't actually require a monopoly for competition rules to apply, it's a "dominant position". Apple certainly meets that definition for smartphone platforms. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/competition.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/competit...
- petcat 2mo agoGeez even the EU's own government websites are polluted with cookie banners. Apparently they can't resist tracking their visitors either.
- coldpie 2mo agoInstall uBlock Origin and enable the Cookie Notices and Annoyances lists in the Filter Lists settings.
- mike_hearn 2mo agoApple isn't "dominant" in any geography and in the EU specifically Android has much greater market share.
- twoodfin 2mo agoSure, but ApolloFortyNine described Apple’s behavior as “slam dunk monopoly abuse”. A monopoly is not a dominant position, it’s an overwhelmingly dominant one.
- earthnail 1mo agoIf you want to distribute mobile apps and reach all users - something that is required for any kind or collaborative app - you MUST support iPhone in the western world. In fact, it’s often iPhone first, Android second. And on the iPhone, you MUST use the Apple App Store, not just as a means to distribute your app, but as your payment provider. You can’t collect payment details yourself, use Stripe, Paddle, anything. You MUST use Apple. You simply cannot enter business without paying Apple a share. That’s a monopoly.
- stahtops 2mo agoI just don’t get the outrage. If you made HATS and wanted to sell them at STORE, do you think you get to just walk into STORE and tell the manager/owner: 1) find some space on the shelf and your stock room to put my stuff! 2) I don’t have a store with shelves or visiting customers, but you will sell this for me at 0% profit! You’re paying for sales access to millions of devices with frictionless checkout. And you want to… make it harder to check out? Because you think you’re entitled sell things to their user base? No one wants to go to your website. You’re crazy.
- Humphrey 2mo agoAgree. However, in this scenario every neighbourhood only has 2 STORES - and each CUSTOMER only shops at one of these STORES. Then, if you made HATS, the only way to sell HATS is to get them on the shelves of both those stores. -- This is Australia: two major supermarkets - so the only way to sell a lot of your product is to submit to the terms of Coles or Woolworths.
- sebastiennight 1mo agoYou're forgetting some detail in your example, which is that 1. the existing STORES also sell almost all the CARS, and the GPS in these cars is hardcoded to only drive to one of their STORES 2. The government is considering a law that forces everyone to show their ID to open the door and drive their CAR, 3. To enfore #2, the government is considering a law to prevent drivers from manually entering GPS coordinates to any other stores, because the two existing STORES promise to enforce the ID-verification system in their parking lots. Now you want to sell your HAT, good luck, because anybody trying to open up a Hat-Droid store with your product in it, is soon legally prevented from doing so. For security purposes. Think of the children!
- alkonaut 2mo agoI think the fundamental thing here is that this isn't merely a store. The Apple ecosystem is large enough to BE a market in itself. It's not about the market for apps, or the market for smartphones. Those markets are comparable to any market. This is about the market for apps ON the apple ecosystem. And the problem that is being solved is: Apple can't have a monopoly on that market, such that they can (for example) charge a commission for every sale. Basically: we can't allow a company to be so successful that their STORE becomes a MARKET.
- NetMageSCW 2mo agoWhy should Apple develop XCode and distribute apps for these developers to iPhones for free? Are you willing to pay the storage and bandwidth costs for Fortnite since Epic apparently can’t afford to?
- ApolloFortyNine 2mo agoYou're creating strawmen here, but it's funny you mention Epic since, yes, they were more than willing to do that, and they have done that. As soon as they were allowed to do so.
- pmontra 2mo agoOf course Apple will close the Store and make apps impossible if they could not extract their fee. That was the plan with the original iPhone and HTML only web apps in its browser. Then they got a more profitable idea. For the apps to go away the store for free must be imposed on Apple, Google and everybody else but I don't think it will ever happen. If it will, people will use the browser and that would be enough. Some JS APIs will be dismissed, some hardware will be removed, some functionality will become impossible and slowly forgotten. Nobody will cry too much and business and entertainment as usual.
- m463 2mo agoUnfortunately xcode and app distribution is mandated by apple. Using cryptographic keys they stand in the way of "owners" of phones from loading non-apple-approved software. even the name "sideloading" has come into being. When the PC first came out it was just "running".
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]