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Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not inter

Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. fwiw, the main site also seems to be down right now, infinite spinner. Docs and blog are loading though

LelouBil 2mo ago
What does "forcing" mean here ? If you want to build an alternative Knot implementation (git Hosting) you can use anything as long as the API is compatible ? Same for all of the parts of Tangled really Also, even if it's down, unlike GitHub you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you
- verdverm 2mo ago
  > you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you Self hosted servers go down too and why people have picked hosted solutions like GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab
  - icy 2mo ago
    Great! Then we've got a hosted solution at tangled.org. :)
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      no thanks, not interested ;] atproto is a red flag for me now, toxic leaders at bluesky, who effectively control the protocol, it's not really open for others to have a say in what it looks like you also don't have private repos and you will need to have centralized app view permission addons to have parity with user expectations, given the weak permissioned data proposal bluesky chose (their own proposal that works for what they need)
icy 2mo ago
> Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. Tangled CEO here. How are we pushing Rust exactly? :D Nix, yes but you don't really need to touch it at all with our Alpine-based CI images. We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale!
- verdverm 2mo ago
  > We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale! GitHub is saying the same thing re: pushing, when I looked many months ago, it looked very much like the rust/nix/jj club, who are on average very opinionated about "good" tech choices and try to shoehorn others into using them. It's a culture I'm not interested in being around
  - LelouBil 2mo ago
    The difference with GitHub is you can also use it if the main instance is down if you self host. (And again self hosting still gets you the interconnection benefits just like if everyone was on tangled.org)
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      you can also buy GitHub Enterprise onprem and get a managed, self-hosted experience, thereby avoiding the public GitHub downtime downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there
      - LelouBil 2mo ago
        I don't think you understood. You can still get a feature complete social experience that is NOT ISOLATED from anyone. Your GitHub Enterprise comparison is wrong, because with an onprem github entreprise you don't have the social github features (and that's the whole point of tangled, use something else if you want a private forge for your company, it's not for this purpose) My point is, Tangled being on ATProto, you can still access all of the repos, PRs and issues of other people by looking through your self-hosted appview even if the official appview is down, because an appview, is just that, an "app *view*" It's the view layer in your traditional app, and ATProto is the database. It's a view of the data on the ATProto network, it is not the data holder, everyone can be their own data holder that is visible through any appview. > downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there Yes, I agree, but I personally think tangled is great because of the interoperability People on codeberg, on gitlab, on github, on self-hosted gitea instances, on self hosted gitlab instances, and so on, all control their issues, PRs, and git repos (they run on their own infra) but they are also more independent, are not subject to a central platform's policies (or are subject to the one they prefer) and so on, and they also introduce contributor friction, you need separate accounts, it can be difficult to cross reference issues and PRs accross projects on different forges, users can't easily have a central feed of project they starred. On tangled you get to have the first part (freedom) while not having the second downside (unique account, cross-references work seamlessly, etc...) Give me reasons open source projects moved forges away from github, and I am pretty sure if tangled did exist when they did so it would fit more boxes of "why they left" than their target forge.
conradludgate 2mo ago
Spindles (CI) can use configurable engines, which includes nixery or microvm (which is similar to github actions). You're not forced into nixos I don't understand how it forces you to engage with Rust. It happens to be written in Rust but that shouldn't be a major consideration for a user

LelouBil 2mo ago

What does "forcing" mean here ? If you want to build an alternative Knot implementation (git Hosting) you can use anything as long as the API is compatible ? Same for all of the parts of Tangled really Also, even if it's down, unlike GitHub you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you

verdverm 2mo ago
> you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you Self hosted servers go down too and why people have picked hosted solutions like GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab
- icy 2mo ago
  Great! Then we've got a hosted solution at tangled.org. :)
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    no thanks, not interested ;] atproto is a red flag for me now, toxic leaders at bluesky, who effectively control the protocol, it's not really open for others to have a say in what it looks like you also don't have private repos and you will need to have centralized app view permission addons to have parity with user expectations, given the weak permissioned data proposal bluesky chose (their own proposal that works for what they need)

icy 2mo ago

> Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. Tangled CEO here. How are we pushing Rust exactly? :D Nix, yes but you don't really need to touch it at all with our Alpine-based CI images. We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale!

verdverm 2mo ago
> We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale! GitHub is saying the same thing re: pushing, when I looked many months ago, it looked very much like the rust/nix/jj club, who are on average very opinionated about "good" tech choices and try to shoehorn others into using them. It's a culture I'm not interested in being around
- LelouBil 2mo ago
  The difference with GitHub is you can also use it if the main instance is down if you self host. (And again self hosting still gets you the interconnection benefits just like if everyone was on tangled.org)
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    you can also buy GitHub Enterprise onprem and get a managed, self-hosted experience, thereby avoiding the public GitHub downtime downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there
    - LelouBil 2mo ago
      I don't think you understood. You can still get a feature complete social experience that is NOT ISOLATED from anyone. Your GitHub Enterprise comparison is wrong, because with an onprem github entreprise you don't have the social github features (and that's the whole point of tangled, use something else if you want a private forge for your company, it's not for this purpose) My point is, Tangled being on ATProto, you can still access all of the repos, PRs and issues of other people by looking through your self-hosted appview even if the official appview is down, because an appview, is just that, an "app *view*" It's the view layer in your traditional app, and ATProto is the database. It's a view of the data on the ATProto network, it is not the data holder, everyone can be their own data holder that is visible through any appview. > downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there Yes, I agree, but I personally think tangled is great because of the interoperability People on codeberg, on gitlab, on github, on self-hosted gitea instances, on self hosted gitlab instances, and so on, all control their issues, PRs, and git repos (they run on their own infra) but they are also more independent, are not subject to a central platform's policies (or are subject to the one they prefer) and so on, and they also introduce contributor friction, you need separate accounts, it can be difficult to cross reference issues and PRs accross projects on different forges, users can't easily have a central feed of project they starred. On tangled you get to have the first part (freedom) while not having the second downside (unique account, cross-references work seamlessly, etc...) Give me reasons open source projects moved forges away from github, and I am pretty sure if tangled did exist when they did so it would fit more boxes of "why they left" than their target forge.

conradludgate 2mo ago

Spindles (CI) can use configurable engines, which includes nixery or microvm (which is similar to github actions). You're not forced into nixos I don't understand how it forces you to engage with Rust. It happens to be written in Rust but that shouldn't be a major consideration for a user