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The department is understaffed by hundreds of officers forcing them to work double shifts in a lot of cases at time-and-a-half pay. This is a very dangerous sit

by datakan 2mo ago

The department is understaffed by hundreds of officers forcing them to work double shifts in a lot of cases at time-and-a-half pay. This is a very dangerous situation for the city to be in as that drives more officers to quit and with the financial impact already sustained will force future cuts creating a downward spiral that will be felt in the crime stats.

triceratops 2mo ago
"From 2011 to 2024, staffing increased by nearly 9%. Over the same period, overtime went up by almost 200%." EDIT: Between 2010 and 2020 Oakland's population increased 12% and total homicides, not per capita, remained flat. The Covid years (2021-23) saw a big increase in homicides (and presumably other crime) which may account for some of the increase. However by 2024, homicides returned to pre-Covid levels.
- ericmay 2mo ago
  How much did crime go up? How much did the population increase? What other factors were there? Those would be helpful data points too.
  - MaxGabriel 2mo ago
    Looks like population is up roughly 10% in that time period https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/oakland-ca-population-by-year/ https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/oakland-ca-population-by-...
    - ericmay 2mo ago
      What about crime?
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    Summary: population up by the same amount as staffing, crime flat or lower (if you're measuring per-capita). Population increased 12% between 2010 and 2020. Total homicides, not per 100k, were roughly the same - 95 vs 110. There was a marked increase in homicides during the Covid years but it dropped back down in 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Demographi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Crime
    - ericmay 2mo ago
      I'm not an expert in police staffing levels, just poking around and asking questions. This seems interesting from your second link: > The number of Oakland Police Department officers has varied from a low of 626 (in 1996 and in 2012) to a high of 814 (in 2002). There were 723 officers at the end of 2015. The city's strategic plan recommended 925 officers, and an independent study commissioned by the city in the mid-1990s recommended 1,200 officers. As of 2025, the city employed only 675 police officers, budgeted for only 600, and of these, 100 were on leave. Maybe that explains some of the overtime numbers?
      - triceratops 2mo ago
        1 in 6 officers were on leave the entire year? What is that about? Like I wrote in another comment, both can be simultaneously true. The department is both understaffed and possibly does not manage its overtime well.
        ericmay 2mo ago
        > 1 in 6 officers were on leave the entire year? What is that about? No clue my friend. Public sector unions do weird things. > Like I wrote in another comment, both can be simultaneously true. The department is both understaffed and possibly does not manage its overtime well. I didn't see that comment, but I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to understand a little more about the staffing levels.
- datakan 2mo ago
  Literally from the article if you had read it: "“At this staffing level, more officers will be forced to work excessive overtime, which in turn will accelerate attrition,” Nguyen said in a statement. “We cannot meet the needs of our community without forcing officers into more shifts.” It is true that OPD is severely understaffed by hundreds of officers. Mayor Barbara Lee is attempting to shrink the staffing gap, with plans to increase the number of officers. "
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    > Nguyen said in a statement That's the head of the police union. Not an objective outsider. > It is true that OPD is severely understaffed by hundreds of officers And despite increasing staffing a little, overtime went up a lot. Two things can be simultaneously true: Oakland PD is understaffed and Oakland PD isn't managing overtime spending well. If they only correct the understaffing problem without fixing overtime, they're going to exacerbate the budgetary issues. It's important for officers to be well-rested when doing their work.
roksprok 2mo ago
Did you read the article? The head of the union billed 800 hours of overtime for reviewing traffic reports that could have been reviewed by lower level officers for a fraction of the cost. There was no tracking of how many reports he actually reviewed. Overtime has gone up even as staffing has. It's clear the system is being abused.
- datakan 2mo ago
  >that could have been reviewed by lower level officers for a fraction of the cost. Did you read it? They are understaffed by hundreds of officers. What lower level officers are going to do it when it's all hands on deck to keep the ship afloat?
  - stonogo 2mo ago
    Probably one of the lower level officers who billed hundreds of hours less overtime than the union head.
  - AngryData 2mo ago
    According to the cops they are understaffed. I don't believe them at all, they are US cops making more money than top level surgeons and doing overtime "reviewing traffic reports." It is no secret that US cops are corrupt and criminal as fuck.
- xp84 2mo ago
  I'm betting it looked something like this, repeated every day for who knows how many years: - [Fetch reports] - "Select All" - "Mark as Reviewed" - Log 7 hours of OT - Go home
llm_nerd 2mo ago
> This is a very dangerous situation for the city to be in as that drives more officers to quit Police unions often resist head count increases if it eats into the overtime scam. And zero cops are "forced" into this, but it's one of the biggest piggy at the trough scams going. Further, police are just shockingly, unbelievably unaccountable for often being profoundly terrible and completely incompetent at their jobs. Budgets and headcounts keep exploding -- it is usually far and away the #1 cost for local budgets -- while the often far-right police force intentionally doesn't do their job to make some sort of statement. Adding funding and number of cops, it turns out, is almost meaningless, and instead crime just fluctuates on other society macro elements. I am not a defund the police person, but policing is at the very top of institutions that needs an extremely close investigation and retooling, being torn down and rebuilt on new foundations if necessary. If police were held to the efficiency standards most of the rest of society is, we would have an infinitely more capable policing system at much lower cost. Instead we have lazy, inept cops who intentionally do a shit job because it earns them overtime, and also sticks it to that "lefty" mayor, etc. And for the "put their lives on the line" people who invariably drop their rhetoric as a diversion -- https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j... -- dangerous, but if you aren't also hero worshipping delivery drivers, garbage collectors and roofers, maybe tone down the nonsense.
- SoftTalker 2mo ago
  You're just describing most municipal employment actually. Grifting, padding work hours, ghost jobs, happens in fire departments, street departments, sanitation departments, etc. as well. It's been a piggy bank for political favoritism for centuries. Yes they also do essential work.
  - xp84 2mo ago
    This seems like the kind of thing that exposes the uncomfortable truth about our civil society. In the natural pre-civilized state of things, people did bad things out of selfishness and greed just because they can. Like, one comes upon a weaker caveman and murders him to take his food or tools or whatever. We tell ourselves our society is way beyond that. But at the end of the day it's actually still about force and violence. The only way to end corruption like this is for some very efficient and morally upright 'Boy Scout' to be put in charge of reforming these departments. They scrutinize everything and terminate everyone responsible. That sometimes happens, but also, doing that is very dangerous and makes a lot of enemies. To the point they get death threats or maybe even not just the threats. Because the ones doing the scams are willing to use force, and if we're being honest, strong bullies in numbers are still a force to be reckoned with.

by datakan 2mo ago

triceratops 2mo ago

"From 2011 to 2024, staffing increased by nearly 9%. Over the same period, overtime went up by almost 200%." EDIT: Between 2010 and 2020 Oakland's population increased 12% and total homicides, not per capita, remained flat. The Covid years (2021-23) saw a big increase in homicides (and presumably other crime) which may account for some of the increase. However by 2024, homicides returned to pre-Covid levels.

ericmay 2mo ago
How much did crime go up? How much did the population increase? What other factors were there? Those would be helpful data points too.
- MaxGabriel 2mo ago
  Looks like population is up roughly 10% in that time period https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/oakland-ca-population-by-year/ https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/oakland-ca-population-by-...
  - ericmay 2mo ago
    What about crime?
- triceratops 2mo ago
  Summary: population up by the same amount as staffing, crime flat or lower (if you're measuring per-capita). Population increased 12% between 2010 and 2020. Total homicides, not per 100k, were roughly the same - 95 vs 110. There was a marked increase in homicides during the Covid years but it dropped back down in 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Demographi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California#Crime
  - ericmay 2mo ago
    I'm not an expert in police staffing levels, just poking around and asking questions. This seems interesting from your second link: > The number of Oakland Police Department officers has varied from a low of 626 (in 1996 and in 2012) to a high of 814 (in 2002). There were 723 officers at the end of 2015. The city's strategic plan recommended 925 officers, and an independent study commissioned by the city in the mid-1990s recommended 1,200 officers. As of 2025, the city employed only 675 police officers, budgeted for only 600, and of these, 100 were on leave. Maybe that explains some of the overtime numbers?
    - triceratops 2mo ago
      1 in 6 officers were on leave the entire year? What is that about? Like I wrote in another comment, both can be simultaneously true. The department is both understaffed and possibly does not manage its overtime well.
      - ericmay 2mo ago
        > 1 in 6 officers were on leave the entire year? What is that about? No clue my friend. Public sector unions do weird things. > Like I wrote in another comment, both can be simultaneously true. The department is both understaffed and possibly does not manage its overtime well. I didn't see that comment, but I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to understand a little more about the staffing levels.
datakan 2mo ago
Literally from the article if you had read it: "“At this staffing level, more officers will be forced to work excessive overtime, which in turn will accelerate attrition,” Nguyen said in a statement. “We cannot meet the needs of our community without forcing officers into more shifts.” It is true that OPD is severely understaffed by hundreds of officers. Mayor Barbara Lee is attempting to shrink the staffing gap, with plans to increase the number of officers. "
- triceratops 2mo ago
  > Nguyen said in a statement That's the head of the police union. Not an objective outsider. > It is true that OPD is severely understaffed by hundreds of officers And despite increasing staffing a little, overtime went up a lot. Two things can be simultaneously true: Oakland PD is understaffed and Oakland PD isn't managing overtime spending well. If they only correct the understaffing problem without fixing overtime, they're going to exacerbate the budgetary issues. It's important for officers to be well-rested when doing their work.

roksprok 2mo ago

Did you read the article? The head of the union billed 800 hours of overtime for reviewing traffic reports that could have been reviewed by lower level officers for a fraction of the cost. There was no tracking of how many reports he actually reviewed. Overtime has gone up even as staffing has. It's clear the system is being abused.

datakan 2mo ago
>that could have been reviewed by lower level officers for a fraction of the cost. Did you read it? They are understaffed by hundreds of officers. What lower level officers are going to do it when it's all hands on deck to keep the ship afloat?
- stonogo 2mo ago
  Probably one of the lower level officers who billed hundreds of hours less overtime than the union head.
- AngryData 2mo ago
  According to the cops they are understaffed. I don't believe them at all, they are US cops making more money than top level surgeons and doing overtime "reviewing traffic reports." It is no secret that US cops are corrupt and criminal as fuck.
xp84 2mo ago
I'm betting it looked something like this, repeated every day for who knows how many years: - [Fetch reports] - "Select All" - "Mark as Reviewed" - Log 7 hours of OT - Go home

llm_nerd 2mo ago

> This is a very dangerous situation for the city to be in as that drives more officers to quit Police unions often resist head count increases if it eats into the overtime scam. And zero cops are "forced" into this, but it's one of the biggest piggy at the trough scams going. Further, police are just shockingly, unbelievably unaccountable for often being profoundly terrible and completely incompetent at their jobs. Budgets and headcounts keep exploding -- it is usually far and away the #1 cost for local budgets -- while the often far-right police force intentionally doesn't do their job to make some sort of statement. Adding funding and number of cops, it turns out, is almost meaningless, and instead crime just fluctuates on other society macro elements. I am not a defund the police person, but policing is at the very top of institutions that needs an extremely close investigation and retooling, being torn down and rebuilt on new foundations if necessary. If police were held to the efficiency standards most of the rest of society is, we would have an infinitely more capable policing system at much lower cost. Instead we have lazy, inept cops who intentionally do a shit job because it earns them overtime, and also sticks it to that "lefty" mayor, etc. And for the "put their lives on the line" people who invariably drop their rhetoric as a diversion -- https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j... -- dangerous, but if you aren't also hero worshipping delivery drivers, garbage collectors and roofers, maybe tone down the nonsense.

SoftTalker 2mo ago
You're just describing most municipal employment actually. Grifting, padding work hours, ghost jobs, happens in fire departments, street departments, sanitation departments, etc. as well. It's been a piggy bank for political favoritism for centuries. Yes they also do essential work.
- xp84 2mo ago
  This seems like the kind of thing that exposes the uncomfortable truth about our civil society. In the natural pre-civilized state of things, people did bad things out of selfishness and greed just because they can. Like, one comes upon a weaker caveman and murders him to take his food or tools or whatever. We tell ourselves our society is way beyond that. But at the end of the day it's actually still about force and violence. The only way to end corruption like this is for some very efficient and morally upright 'Boy Scout' to be put in charge of reforming these departments. They scrutinize everything and terminate everyone responsible. That sometimes happens, but also, doing that is very dangerous and makes a lot of enemies. To the point they get death threats or maybe even not just the threats. Because the ones doing the scams are willing to use force, and if we're being honest, strong bullies in numbers are still a force to be reckoned with.