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It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. Of course when you buy a product that is heavily advertised you know that you are paying for it, Am

by GuB-42 2mo ago

It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. Of course when you buy a product that is heavily advertised you know that you are paying for it, Amazon or not. That's why, when I see an ad campaign for a product I may want, it is a signal for me to look elsewhere. Some competitor may use what would be ad budget towards offering lower prices or better quality. As for Amazon, it is not cheap! It is convenient, fast delivery, easy returns and all that. But if you forego that convenience, there is usually a cheaper option: local shops, Chinese platforms, direct sales, etc...

throwaway2037 2mo ago
> As for Amazon, it is not cheap! To be fair, I am not doubting this statement for your experience. However, I will say my experience is the opposite. Amazon, where I live, is regularly cheaper and/or more convenient (1/2 day shipping for nearly everything). This makes me ask the question: What is the "PPP" (purchasing power parity) of Amazon for each region? It seems logical that Amazon would be (in some regions): (1) cheap, or (2) nearly the same price, or (3) expensive. Of course, I am sure this also varies by product category.
- rogerrogerr 2mo ago
  > Amazon, where I live, is regularly cheaper and/or more convenient (1/2 day shipping for nearly everything). And where I live, which is not a first-tier dense city by any means, I regularly get 3 _hour_ shipping for common things. Often cheaper than I could get those items at walmart.
andrewla 2mo ago
It's confusing to me that amazon is in the ads business at all though. They're a retail service, not an ad business and it seems that all the ad business does is burn goodwill. They do have goodwill to burn, but it cheapens the entire experience.
- jonahx 2mo ago
  Per the article, in exchange for that goodwill they get a billion dollars per week. Do we need more explanation? To be clear, it's gross, but they are doing it just enough that their convenience and average sufficient product quality keeps me using them. I'd guess they do a lot of research to keep that balance where it is.
  - andrewla 2mo ago
    I don't expect to get any sort of explanation from Amazon of course. I do think they are probably doing something that is hurting them financially. Acquired goodwill is extremely hard to measure and shows up in things like long-term customer retention and engagement, so you're not going to see it on an A/B test -- on a A/B test users come in with the same level of goodwill on both sides of the fork and thus their immediate behavior is not going to be dictated by this. In many ways this is symptomatic of larger trends in society and managerial culture of looking for ways to measure things rather than confronting the messy subjective non-measurable reality. The only time we'll get a true counterfactual is when a competitor arises who can meet Amazon's very high bar for logistic excellence but can offer a more appealing interaction, and then Amazon retail will die off without anyone understanding how or why it happened.
    - dwedge 2mo ago
      I still use Amazon despite them being burned because they seem slightly more reliable than other places, but only slightly and my goodwill to them is completely burned. Yesterday they delivered a package to a parcel locker 150 miles away, which is a double screw up because it was supposed to be to the door. They've also made it really difficult to see where a package will be shipped from (and so whether or not you'll pay import taxes). But I'm close. My purchases through them are down probably somewhere around 80%. My girlfriend never really used Amazon and doesn't see the appeal at all - telling someone "it used to be good" makes you wonder what you're doing. Even AWS has burned me and clients enough times that we pretty much don't use them anymore - an idea that was unthinkable a decade ago. The other thing is that the more they burn this goodwill the more they'll be tempted to increase ad revenue, and the more the goodwill will disappear.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
Tepix 2mo ago
> It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. It doesn't have to be that way. Can you keep your search results pure and put ads next to them. If the ads are good, customers will be interested. Yes, you will have fewer clicks (i.e. less ad revenue) than if you try to deceive your customers by not clearly marking ads. But you don't have to enshittify your page. Enshittification also lowers the value of your business, particularly in the long term.
everybodyknows 2mo ago
> It is convenient, fast delivery, easy returns and all that. Not, however, reliable. Ordered espresso filters, got counterfeits; ordered new monitor, got used, with a scratch in the screen, followed by a runaround game while demanding a replacement.
m463 2mo ago
> It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. It has everything to do with amazon. Amazon has chosen to embed ads into the navigation used to shop on their site. It is a conflict with the customer's needs in just about every way possible. I think the only time I saw something so blatant was years ago at the Cheesecake factory, where they had ads in their menu (not really food-related)
tclancy 2mo ago
> It is just how ads work First, no. You have missed the point of the piece entirely. Second, even if you were right, is that an argument for it working that way? If this were a blog post about how gangrene sucks, would you be making the same case? I’m just going to keep doing this like once a month here forever: “it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.”
wpietri 2mo ago
It does have to do with Amazon. Their original mission was to be the best place to buy things. And for a long time they were. But now they've parasitized themselves. They make more money by making things worse for buyer and seller.

by GuB-42 2mo ago

throwaway2037 2mo ago

> As for Amazon, it is not cheap! To be fair, I am not doubting this statement for your experience. However, I will say my experience is the opposite. Amazon, where I live, is regularly cheaper and/or more convenient (1/2 day shipping for nearly everything). This makes me ask the question: What is the "PPP" (purchasing power parity) of Amazon for each region? It seems logical that Amazon would be (in some regions): (1) cheap, or (2) nearly the same price, or (3) expensive. Of course, I am sure this also varies by product category.

rogerrogerr 2mo ago
> Amazon, where I live, is regularly cheaper and/or more convenient (1/2 day shipping for nearly everything). And where I live, which is not a first-tier dense city by any means, I regularly get 3 _hour_ shipping for common things. Often cheaper than I could get those items at walmart.

andrewla 2mo ago

It's confusing to me that amazon is in the ads business at all though. They're a retail service, not an ad business and it seems that all the ad business does is burn goodwill. They do have goodwill to burn, but it cheapens the entire experience.

jonahx 2mo ago
Per the article, in exchange for that goodwill they get a billion dollars per week. Do we need more explanation? To be clear, it's gross, but they are doing it just enough that their convenience and average sufficient product quality keeps me using them. I'd guess they do a lot of research to keep that balance where it is.
- andrewla 2mo ago
  I don't expect to get any sort of explanation from Amazon of course. I do think they are probably doing something that is hurting them financially. Acquired goodwill is extremely hard to measure and shows up in things like long-term customer retention and engagement, so you're not going to see it on an A/B test -- on a A/B test users come in with the same level of goodwill on both sides of the fork and thus their immediate behavior is not going to be dictated by this. In many ways this is symptomatic of larger trends in society and managerial culture of looking for ways to measure things rather than confronting the messy subjective non-measurable reality. The only time we'll get a true counterfactual is when a competitor arises who can meet Amazon's very high bar for logistic excellence but can offer a more appealing interaction, and then Amazon retail will die off without anyone understanding how or why it happened.
  - dwedge 2mo ago
    I still use Amazon despite them being burned because they seem slightly more reliable than other places, but only slightly and my goodwill to them is completely burned. Yesterday they delivered a package to a parcel locker 150 miles away, which is a double screw up because it was supposed to be to the door. They've also made it really difficult to see where a package will be shipped from (and so whether or not you'll pay import taxes). But I'm close. My purchases through them are down probably somewhere around 80%. My girlfriend never really used Amazon and doesn't see the appeal at all - telling someone "it used to be good" makes you wonder what you're doing. Even AWS has burned me and clients enough times that we pretty much don't use them anymore - an idea that was unthinkable a decade ago. The other thing is that the more they burn this goodwill the more they'll be tempted to increase ad revenue, and the more the goodwill will disappear.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

Tepix 2mo ago

> It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. It doesn't have to be that way. Can you keep your search results pure and put ads next to them. If the ads are good, customers will be interested. Yes, you will have fewer clicks (i.e. less ad revenue) than if you try to deceive your customers by not clearly marking ads. But you don't have to enshittify your page. Enshittification also lowers the value of your business, particularly in the long term.

everybodyknows 2mo ago

> It is convenient, fast delivery, easy returns and all that. Not, however, reliable. Ordered espresso filters, got counterfeits; ordered new monitor, got used, with a scratch in the screen, followed by a runaround game while demanding a replacement.

m463 2mo ago

> It doesn't have to do with Amazon. It is just how ads work. It has everything to do with amazon. Amazon has chosen to embed ads into the navigation used to shop on their site. It is a conflict with the customer's needs in just about every way possible. I think the only time I saw something so blatant was years ago at the Cheesecake factory, where they had ads in their menu (not really food-related)

tclancy 2mo ago

> It is just how ads work First, no. You have missed the point of the piece entirely. Second, even if you were right, is that an argument for it working that way? If this were a blog post about how gangrene sucks, would you be making the same case? I’m just going to keep doing this like once a month here forever: “it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.”

wpietri 2mo ago

It does have to do with Amazon. Their original mission was to be the best place to buy things. And for a long time they were. But now they've parasitized themselves. They make more money by making things worse for buyer and seller.