4 ms·

I'm sure their concerns are valid but just because GrapheneOS don't consider the Fairphone to meet their standards for security doesn't mean it is not worth con

I'm sure their concerns are valid but just because GrapheneOS don't consider the Fairphone to meet their standards for security doesn't mean it is not worth considering for other people who may have different priorities. Fairphones have certain advantages over Pixels such as better repairability and more ethically sourced labour/components. IMO it's good to see the Fairphone do well (and I hope GrapheneOS's partnership with Motorola also goes well).

stymaar 1mo ago
Unfortunately it looks like it's not just a issue of missing hardware security features: > Their partnership with Murena along with promoting it themselves with misleading marketing means no possibility of working with us. I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem for the long term prospect of the project.
- hokumguru 1mo ago
  Is it pettiness or just sticking to their morals? Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for.
  - krunck 1mo ago
    > Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for. How? In what way? Source?
    - Telaneo 1mo ago
      https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509 https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using...
      - stymaar 1mo ago
        June 2025 Someone else shared the up to date info about this feature: https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text > The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service through an anonymising proxy, so it required a Murena Workspace Premium subscription and an internet connection. > The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe: https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603
  - oever 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - oever 1mo ago
      In the current version of /e/OS, Voice to Text runs offline. > The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service [...] The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe. Here are 2 clear examples: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie...
  - Contortion 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Cider9986 1mo ago
      And yet GrapheneOS is better at everything that /e/ claims.
      - teekert 1mo ago
        Not at running on sustainably produced, repairable hardware ;) (Wish it was though.)
        johnsea 1mo ago
        You can buy used Pixels, e.g. from 8a up. I'd claim that this is much more ecological than buying a new Fairphone. I suppose that a Pixel is of a higher quality and has less defects than a Fairphone (which changed the ODM several times). -- This said, I would never use /e/ and Murena as I read too many things I don't like.
        SoftTalker 1mo ago
        [flagged]
        garyfirestorm 1mo ago
        You can always flash and factory reset. I’d bet 99.9% of phones on eBay are by and for general public and not some esoteric zero days in the wild that your comment makes it sound like.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        Fairphones have very poor updates with rapidly degrading privacy and security over their lifespan. They don't keep up with important updates from the beginning and it gets much worse over time. Updates are very important for sustainability. They're also missing important hardware-based security protections which are needed to protect user data in the real world. They've consistently had major issues such as using publicly available private keys for signing firmware and OS images which they've usually failed to acknowledge. Fairphone 5 and earlier have an end-of-life Linux kernel branch with no movement to updating to a newer one. Fairphone 6 is set to end up in the same situation and it isn't far away. They nearly entirely stop providing Linux privacy and security patches once this happens. Android patches come around half a year late since the Android Security Bulletins themselves are published very late and Fairphone lags 1-2 months or more behind those. There's extremely little information available on Fairphone's ODM partner T2Mobile and their supply chain. The information is mainly a list of suppliers without information on working conditions, pay, environmental protection or nearly anything else. T2Mobile has been their ODM since the Fairphone 4 and earlier information is no longer relevant. They moved away from their original ODM partnership to another with the Fairphone 3 and then to T2Mobile with the Fairphone 4. It's unclear if pay and working conditions are better at T2Mobile for Fairphones than they are for their other products and in what way they're better. It's unclear how it comes to Foxconn for Apple and Google phones. Apple and Google design their devices and handle the firmware and software. Fairphone is using hardware, firmware and software provided by T2Mobile. Fairphone is heavily reliant on what's provided by their ODM. For example, their move to T2Mobile coincided with dropping the 3.5mm audio jack. It's likely not something they wanted to do and many of their supporters were unhappy about it, but it's not really their phone hardware. The phones are essentially T2Mobile devices and there's not a lot of information available. It isn't clear why they switched to T2Mobile with the Fairphone 4 or why the earlier switch to another ODM happened with the Fairphone 3.
  - Grombobulous 1mo ago
    Only for one voice to text feature which is completely optional to use and can be replaced with something else. As another commenter mentioned, this voice to text feature is now an offline feature and no longer sends data outside the device. As another note, this Fairphone can be purchased without /e/OS at all. It’s now being sold in the US without Murena being involved at all.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe: https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 Fairphones don't provide a reasonable level of privacy and security without /e/ either: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807
  - transdev12 1mo ago
    You can stick to your morals without blowing things out of proportion. “We are the only acceptable way to do things and no tradeoffs are acceptable” is fairly petty. “We have a difference of opinion” isn’t.
  - stymaar 1mo ago
    [flagged]
- Telaneo 1mo ago
  That does not seem like pettiness to me. That seems like a very good reason to not work with someone.
  - NetMageSCW 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Telaneo 1mo ago
      I'm not sure how you can read my comment to imply that.
    - deleted 1mo ago
      [deleted]
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      Fairphones continue to have awful updates, privacy and security. /e/ sending user speech data to OpenAI without consent for years never had anything to do with why Fairphones don't meet our requirements. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  >I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem I used to feel a bit similarly. But I've since realized they are one of the very few software projects that actually make sensible privacy and security choices.
  - dnautics 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      The privacy and security deficiencies of CalyxOS have nothing to do with compromises for usability. GrapheneOS provides much better usability including through having far broader app compatibility. CalyxOS drastically reduces privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. It recently went a whole year without privacy and security patches. They're currently months behind on providing current Pixel driver and firmware updates. It has never been a privacy or security hardened OS but rather the direct opposite.
      - dnautics 1mo ago
        [flagged]
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        An operating system going a year without providing privacy and security patches is much worse than many options on that basis alone. It's currently months behind on updates. It's hardly the only other option available.
- HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
  Refusing to work with organizations or individuals that are detrimental to privacy and security is not petty. Murena does not provide private or secure products and has positioned itself to be against what GrapheneOS provides. A partnership with a company opposed to GrapheneOS and spreading misinformation about it would not be beneficial, and it is not petty to make the smart choice for the benefit of privacy and security.
- m4xp 1mo ago
  As someone that swapped from fairphone 5 to a pixel9a with graphene. I have to side with graphene. Fairphone is a cool concept, but its a expensive phone, early on i had problem with the speakers and mic. Security updates are extremely slow, support is extremely slow. Their missions is to make a fair phone, but is it fair if you are then forced to buy more ewaste because your phone breaks? Look at pixel software support, its really good, and eu made batteries replacement mandatory.
drnick1 1mo ago
The Graphene devs can be a bit obsessive about security, but with a starting price above $600, I think the average user is probably better off with a Pixel 10a bought on sale closer to $300. The stock Fairphone OS seems to include Google services, which is kind of surprising and at odds with the focus on user control and all that.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  Fairphones don't provide bare minimum privacy and security. Expecting that is not being obsessive. The flaws are increasingly glaring and easier than ever to exploit thanks to advances in AI models. People should care about this and should get a device with reasonable privacy and security such as an iPhone instead. Fairphone 5 and earlier having an end-of-life Linux kernel with the Fairphone 6 coming up next is a disaster. Many months of delays for standard Android userspace patches from when they can first be shipped and years of delays for the full patches is also a major problem. An increasingly small portion of the patches is backported to older releases and they have months of delays for those. Fairphones are also missing crucial industry standard hardware security features. People have come to expect their device will provide strong encryption with a random 6 digit PIN rather than a very strong passphrase but that's not the case with a Fairphone. More information: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354623
grapheneos 1mo ago
Fairphones have atrocious updates, privacy and security. They lag many months and even years behind on providing crucial standard privacy and security patches. They've failed to respond to the discovery of severe security issues including multiple of their devices using publicly available private keys for signing. Fairphone lags months behind on providing Android Security Bulletin patches which are themselves delayed by months compared to when OEMs are first provided and allowed to ship the patches. They lag a year or more behind on major OS updates and count this as additional support time compared to other OEMs. For example, a final major OS update being delayed for 3 years is marketed as providing 3 more years of support compared to shipping it on time. Fairphone 5 and earlier have an end-of-life kernel branch and the same fate awaits the Fairphone 6. Pixels move to newer kernel branches and are currently moving to 6.12 and then on to 6.18. Other OEMs are also beginning to use newer kernels and move to new branches. Linux LTS branches are only going to have 2 years of support going forward. Fairphones are designed and assembled by an ODM. Fairphone has very limited involvement in engineering the devices. The working conditions and supply chain are also largely up to T2Mobile rather than Fairphone. Whether either of those are better than Pixels or especially iPhones should be demonstrated with evidence. There's extremely little information available on the working conditions, pay and other aspects of the assembly and supply chain for Fairphones. Fairphone replaced their own open source OS without Google Mobile Services with /e/ as part of a close partnership with Murena. /e/ and Murena have repeatedly claimed highly private and secure devices mainly benefit criminals and pedophiles along with peddling other authoritarian talking points. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS devices are mainly used by criminals and aren't useful to regular people. https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 Despite the marketing, /e/ has very poor privacy and security. /e/ has their own invasive services with tracking, gives highly privileged access to default enabled Google services and doesn't keep up with basic updates. It greatly rolls back privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/e.txt https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/co... https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

stymaar 1mo ago

Unfortunately it looks like it's not just a issue of missing hardware security features: > Their partnership with Murena along with promoting it themselves with misleading marketing means no possibility of working with us. I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem for the long term prospect of the project.

hokumguru 1mo ago
Is it pettiness or just sticking to their morals? Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for.
- krunck 1mo ago
  > Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for. How? In what way? Source?
  - Telaneo 1mo ago
    https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509 https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using...
    - stymaar 1mo ago
      June 2025 Someone else shared the up to date info about this feature: https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text > The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service through an anonymising proxy, so it required a Murena Workspace Premium subscription and an internet connection. > The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe: https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603
- oever 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - oever 1mo ago
    In the current version of /e/OS, Voice to Text runs offline. > The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service [...] The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe. Here are 2 clear examples: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie...
- Contortion 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    And yet GrapheneOS is better at everything that /e/ claims.
    - teekert 1mo ago
      Not at running on sustainably produced, repairable hardware ;) (Wish it was though.)
      - johnsea 1mo ago
        You can buy used Pixels, e.g. from 8a up. I'd claim that this is much more ecological than buying a new Fairphone. I suppose that a Pixel is of a higher quality and has less defects than a Fairphone (which changed the ODM several times). -- This said, I would never use /e/ and Murena as I read too many things I don't like.
        SoftTalker 1mo ago
        [flagged]
        garyfirestorm 1mo ago
        You can always flash and factory reset. I’d bet 99.9% of phones on eBay are by and for general public and not some esoteric zero days in the wild that your comment makes it sound like.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        Fairphones have very poor updates with rapidly degrading privacy and security over their lifespan. They don't keep up with important updates from the beginning and it gets much worse over time. Updates are very important for sustainability. They're also missing important hardware-based security protections which are needed to protect user data in the real world. They've consistently had major issues such as using publicly available private keys for signing firmware and OS images which they've usually failed to acknowledge. Fairphone 5 and earlier have an end-of-life Linux kernel branch with no movement to updating to a newer one. Fairphone 6 is set to end up in the same situation and it isn't far away. They nearly entirely stop providing Linux privacy and security patches once this happens. Android patches come around half a year late since the Android Security Bulletins themselves are published very late and Fairphone lags 1-2 months or more behind those. There's extremely little information available on Fairphone's ODM partner T2Mobile and their supply chain. The information is mainly a list of suppliers without information on working conditions, pay, environmental protection or nearly anything else. T2Mobile has been their ODM since the Fairphone 4 and earlier information is no longer relevant. They moved away from their original ODM partnership to another with the Fairphone 3 and then to T2Mobile with the Fairphone 4. It's unclear if pay and working conditions are better at T2Mobile for Fairphones than they are for their other products and in what way they're better. It's unclear how it comes to Foxconn for Apple and Google phones. Apple and Google design their devices and handle the firmware and software. Fairphone is using hardware, firmware and software provided by T2Mobile. Fairphone is heavily reliant on what's provided by their ODM. For example, their move to T2Mobile coincided with dropping the 3.5mm audio jack. It's likely not something they wanted to do and many of their supporters were unhappy about it, but it's not really their phone hardware. The phones are essentially T2Mobile devices and there's not a lot of information available. It isn't clear why they switched to T2Mobile with the Fairphone 4 or why the earlier switch to another ODM happened with the Fairphone 3.
- Grombobulous 1mo ago
  Only for one voice to text feature which is completely optional to use and can be replaced with something else. As another commenter mentioned, this voice to text feature is now an offline feature and no longer sends data outside the device. As another note, this Fairphone can be purchased without /e/OS at all. It’s now being sold in the US without Murena being involved at all.
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    /e/ has other privacy invasive services which are enabled by default. It gives highly privileged access to Google services which are always active and has user tracking in their update client. /e/ and Murena repeatedly claiming privacy/security hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and falsely claiming they're mainly used by criminals shows what they believe: https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 /e/ lacks many crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081837057433915603 Fairphones don't provide a reasonable level of privacy and security without /e/ either: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807
- transdev12 1mo ago
  You can stick to your morals without blowing things out of proportion. “We are the only acceptable way to do things and no tradeoffs are acceptable” is fairly petty. “We have a difference of opinion” isn’t.
- stymaar 1mo ago
  [flagged]
Telaneo 1mo ago
That does not seem like pettiness to me. That seems like a very good reason to not work with someone.
- NetMageSCW 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Telaneo 1mo ago
    I'm not sure how you can read my comment to imply that.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    Fairphones continue to have awful updates, privacy and security. /e/ sending user speech data to OpenAI without consent for years never had anything to do with why Fairphones don't meet our requirements. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807
Cider9986 1mo ago
>I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem I used to feel a bit similarly. But I've since realized they are one of the very few software projects that actually make sensible privacy and security choices.
- dnautics 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    The privacy and security deficiencies of CalyxOS have nothing to do with compromises for usability. GrapheneOS provides much better usability including through having far broader app compatibility. CalyxOS drastically reduces privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. It recently went a whole year without privacy and security patches. They're currently months behind on providing current Pixel driver and firmware updates. It has never been a privacy or security hardened OS but rather the direct opposite.
    - dnautics 1mo ago
      [flagged]
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        An operating system going a year without providing privacy and security patches is much worse than many options on that basis alone. It's currently months behind on updates. It's hardly the only other option available.
HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
Refusing to work with organizations or individuals that are detrimental to privacy and security is not petty. Murena does not provide private or secure products and has positioned itself to be against what GrapheneOS provides. A partnership with a company opposed to GrapheneOS and spreading misinformation about it would not be beneficial, and it is not petty to make the smart choice for the benefit of privacy and security.
m4xp 1mo ago
As someone that swapped from fairphone 5 to a pixel9a with graphene. I have to side with graphene. Fairphone is a cool concept, but its a expensive phone, early on i had problem with the speakers and mic. Security updates are extremely slow, support is extremely slow. Their missions is to make a fair phone, but is it fair if you are then forced to buy more ewaste because your phone breaks? Look at pixel software support, its really good, and eu made batteries replacement mandatory.

drnick1 1mo ago

The Graphene devs can be a bit obsessive about security, but with a starting price above $600, I think the average user is probably better off with a Pixel 10a bought on sale closer to $300. The stock Fairphone OS seems to include Google services, which is kind of surprising and at odds with the focus on user control and all that.

grapheneos 1mo ago
Fairphones don't provide bare minimum privacy and security. Expecting that is not being obsessive. The flaws are increasingly glaring and easier than ever to exploit thanks to advances in AI models. People should care about this and should get a device with reasonable privacy and security such as an iPhone instead. Fairphone 5 and earlier having an end-of-life Linux kernel with the Fairphone 6 coming up next is a disaster. Many months of delays for standard Android userspace patches from when they can first be shipped and years of delays for the full patches is also a major problem. An increasingly small portion of the patches is backported to older releases and they have months of delays for those. Fairphones are also missing crucial industry standard hardware security features. People have come to expect their device will provide strong encryption with a random 6 digit PIN rather than a very strong passphrase but that's not the case with a Fairphone. More information: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354623

grapheneos 1mo ago

Fairphones have atrocious updates, privacy and security. They lag many months and even years behind on providing crucial standard privacy and security patches. They've failed to respond to the discovery of severe security issues including multiple of their devices using publicly available private keys for signing. Fairphone lags months behind on providing Android Security Bulletin patches which are themselves delayed by months compared to when OEMs are first provided and allowed to ship the patches. They lag a year or more behind on major OS updates and count this as additional support time compared to other OEMs. For example, a final major OS update being delayed for 3 years is marketed as providing 3 more years of support compared to shipping it on time. Fairphone 5 and earlier have an end-of-life kernel branch and the same fate awaits the Fairphone 6. Pixels move to newer kernel branches and are currently moving to 6.12 and then on to 6.18. Other OEMs are also beginning to use newer kernels and move to new branches. Linux LTS branches are only going to have 2 years of support going forward. Fairphones are designed and assembled by an ODM. Fairphone has very limited involvement in engineering the devices. The working conditions and supply chain are also largely up to T2Mobile rather than Fairphone. Whether either of those are better than Pixels or especially iPhones should be demonstrated with evidence. There's extremely little information available on the working conditions, pay and other aspects of the assembly and supply chain for Fairphones. Fairphone replaced their own open source OS without Google Mobile Services with /e/ as part of a close partnership with Murena. /e/ and Murena have repeatedly claimed highly private and secure devices mainly benefit criminals and pedophiles along with peddling other authoritarian talking points. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS devices are mainly used by criminals and aren't useful to regular people. https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie... https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 Despite the marketing, /e/ has very poor privacy and security. /e/ has their own invasive services with tracking, gives highly privileged access to default enabled Google services and doesn't keep up with basic updates. It greatly rolls back privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/e.txt https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/co... https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...