3 ms·

Kinda sad to me that a lot of the greats from those eras of gaming end up fizzling out on things they shouldn't really be working on and are not to their streng

Kinda sad to me that a lot of the greats from those eras of gaming end up fizzling out on things they shouldn't really be working on and are not to their strengths because of industry ideas of the sorts of games that should be made today. Like Molyneux's last games all being centered around trash exploitative mobile game mechanics. Spector being the progenitor of 2 entire very rich single player genres with Thief and DeusEx it just feels completely the wrong person to be working on some coop online game that got support ended after 2 months. It's just not what a talent like him should be working on and the business mechanics don't align with his strengths. Would have made a lot more sense to be doing a budget IMSIM, there is an audience there on PC for for these sort of games at a visual fidelity level a small team can accomplish rather than trying to make something more mainstream with a reliance on online.

ramesh31 2mo ago
>"Kinda sad to me that a lot of the greats from those eras of gaming end up fizzling out on things they shouldn't really be working on and are not to their strengths because of industry ideas of the sorts of games that should be made today." I'm sure his bank account disagrees. All games are, ultimately, commercial ventures with the express purpose of making money. It's why they are so hard to classify as "art". There are a select few auteur driven passion projects that can transcend this now and again, but they are generally extreme outliers among even their creator's careers, let alone the industry as a whole.
- collinmcnulty 2mo ago
  Artists have to eat, it doesn’t make them not artists. Games are not hard to classify as art. You may not like the art or think a lot of it’s not very good, but they are art, because art is not the exclusive domain of “auteur driven passion projects”.
- Shorel 2mo ago
  Cyberpunk 2077 creators bank account is bigger, and arguably that game is he true spiritual successor of Deus Ex.
  - pipes 1mo ago
    I haven't played Cyberpunk, I loved the original Deus ex. I think cyberpunk would probably too much for me to try and play these days, due to no free time. Is it open world, so unlike Deus ex single contained levels?
- DSMan195276 2mo ago
  That seems a bit silly considering how many of the most famous paintings and artworks are/were commissions. Do you disqualify anything that was made for monetary reasons?
- sm-silversight 2mo ago
  Thief is something more than a commercial venture. The Black Parade getting released decades after, for free, is a testament to that. https://www.moddb.com/groups/2023-mod-of-the-year-awards/features/players-choice-mod-of-the-year-2023 https://www.moddb.com/groups/2023-mod-of-the-year-awards/fea...
coffeebeqn 2mo ago
Seems like that’s more the norm than not. You have a few great games in you and then you’re kind of out of ideas or the unique thing you brought gets diffused into the genre. Romero was one of the first ones to go through that. Has anyone other the Miyamoto and Miyazaki and Sid Meier(?) been able to keep the quality up? And they’re probably more like managers of designers at this point
- malfist 2mo ago
  Has sid meier kept up the quality? Last I heard the new civilization game is petty crap and shipped unfinished in favor of dlc for basic game play
  - mickeyp 2mo ago
    Meier's about as connected to most of these things as Tony the tiger is to the actual production of cornflakes.
  - ben_w 2mo ago
    That's been par for the course on the series for some time now. Not sure when exactly, I assume since physical media became less important, but it's been recommended for at least V and VI, not just VII to skip the x.0 releases, wait for some updates.
    - bigstrat2003 2mo ago
      No, 7 is way worse than any Civ game has ever been, and has a much worse reception than any Civ game has ever had. There are always a vocal contingent of users who are unhappy with the new Civ on release, but it's never been almost everyone before (as it is with Civ 7). Firaxis really screwed this one up.
- jayd16 2mo ago
  Kojima games have only gotten more Kojima.
  - 2mo ago
mickeyp 2mo ago
Or maybe, just maybe, these guys made great games because they were surrounded by great people. That QA guy who gave key insights into how tedious certain game mechanics were; the "bad executive" they all hated who reined in their unreachable goals; that one developer who applied his good game design senses despite not being a designated designer. I find the notion of auteur "game developers" somewhat puzzling. I say that as someone who played, and still play, these games when they came out. Most of these guys haven't made great games in a long, long while. Obsidian's only decent game in a long while is Pentiment, and that for all intents was a passion project.
- nsavage 2mo ago
  The other factor that might be in play is that the people who made great games got lucky and didn't really know exactly what made their games so good and aren't able to recapture the magic.
  - meheleventyone 2mo ago
    It's a combination of all those things really. There's also a lot of people in commercial game development that get stuck in their thesis of success when the market has moved on. In particular I'd say right now it's really hard to look at any given game that has commerical potential and spot the winners across any size category. There is a glut of supply that tends to exentuate the hit driven nature of making games as gamers latch onto the next viral success whilst at the same time making it hard to have multiple hits. Back in the day competition was less and money could buy a scope and technology advantage. Both of which are ideas that no longer really apply.
    - bigbuppo 2mo ago
      And then you have Jeff Vogel, who has spent roughly 2/3 of his career literally remaking the games he first released 30 years ago. And I've literally bought them all.
      - meheleventyone 1mo ago
Kiln6125 2mo ago
Well, at least for Peter Molyneux he seems to be giving it one last shot at making something overly ambitious: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3165650/Masters_of_Albion/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/3165650/Masters_of_Albion...
epolanski 2mo ago
Today's development is either pay huge money for blockbusters, or go budget and make "lovely" games as indie developers. Hard to get the mid ground, they rarely recoup the costs.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
vinkelhake 2mo ago
I don't think Molyneux's issue ever was due to industry pressure. The guy made some great games back in the day, but as long as he has been in the spotlight he has been known for overpromising and underdelivering. Don't get me wrong, a game like Fable was pretty good, but it was nowhere near what he was effectively selling back when it was known as Project Ego. That Molyneux chose to make a mindless clicker as his first game with 22cans really can't be blamed on anything or anyone other than Peter himself.

ramesh31 2mo ago

>"Kinda sad to me that a lot of the greats from those eras of gaming end up fizzling out on things they shouldn't really be working on and are not to their strengths because of industry ideas of the sorts of games that should be made today." I'm sure his bank account disagrees. All games are, ultimately, commercial ventures with the express purpose of making money. It's why they are so hard to classify as "art". There are a select few auteur driven passion projects that can transcend this now and again, but they are generally extreme outliers among even their creator's careers, let alone the industry as a whole.

collinmcnulty 2mo ago
Artists have to eat, it doesn’t make them not artists. Games are not hard to classify as art. You may not like the art or think a lot of it’s not very good, but they are art, because art is not the exclusive domain of “auteur driven passion projects”.
Shorel 2mo ago
Cyberpunk 2077 creators bank account is bigger, and arguably that game is he true spiritual successor of Deus Ex.
- pipes 1mo ago
  I haven't played Cyberpunk, I loved the original Deus ex. I think cyberpunk would probably too much for me to try and play these days, due to no free time. Is it open world, so unlike Deus ex single contained levels?
DSMan195276 2mo ago
That seems a bit silly considering how many of the most famous paintings and artworks are/were commissions. Do you disqualify anything that was made for monetary reasons?
sm-silversight 2mo ago
Thief is something more than a commercial venture. The Black Parade getting released decades after, for free, is a testament to that. https://www.moddb.com/groups/2023-mod-of-the-year-awards/features/players-choice-mod-of-the-year-2023 https://www.moddb.com/groups/2023-mod-of-the-year-awards/fea...

coffeebeqn 2mo ago

Seems like that’s more the norm than not. You have a few great games in you and then you’re kind of out of ideas or the unique thing you brought gets diffused into the genre. Romero was one of the first ones to go through that. Has anyone other the Miyamoto and Miyazaki and Sid Meier(?) been able to keep the quality up? And they’re probably more like managers of designers at this point

malfist 2mo ago
Has sid meier kept up the quality? Last I heard the new civilization game is petty crap and shipped unfinished in favor of dlc for basic game play
- mickeyp 2mo ago
  Meier's about as connected to most of these things as Tony the tiger is to the actual production of cornflakes.
- ben_w 2mo ago
  That's been par for the course on the series for some time now. Not sure when exactly, I assume since physical media became less important, but it's been recommended for at least V and VI, not just VII to skip the x.0 releases, wait for some updates.
  - bigstrat2003 2mo ago
    No, 7 is way worse than any Civ game has ever been, and has a much worse reception than any Civ game has ever had. There are always a vocal contingent of users who are unhappy with the new Civ on release, but it's never been almost everyone before (as it is with Civ 7). Firaxis really screwed this one up.
jayd16 2mo ago
Kojima games have only gotten more Kojima.
- 2mo ago

mickeyp 2mo ago

Or maybe, just maybe, these guys made great games because they were surrounded by great people. That QA guy who gave key insights into how tedious certain game mechanics were; the "bad executive" they all hated who reined in their unreachable goals; that one developer who applied his good game design senses despite not being a designated designer. I find the notion of auteur "game developers" somewhat puzzling. I say that as someone who played, and still play, these games when they came out. Most of these guys haven't made great games in a long, long while. Obsidian's only decent game in a long while is Pentiment, and that for all intents was a passion project.

nsavage 2mo ago
The other factor that might be in play is that the people who made great games got lucky and didn't really know exactly what made their games so good and aren't able to recapture the magic.
- meheleventyone 2mo ago
  It's a combination of all those things really. There's also a lot of people in commercial game development that get stuck in their thesis of success when the market has moved on. In particular I'd say right now it's really hard to look at any given game that has commerical potential and spot the winners across any size category. There is a glut of supply that tends to exentuate the hit driven nature of making games as gamers latch onto the next viral success whilst at the same time making it hard to have multiple hits. Back in the day competition was less and money could buy a scope and technology advantage. Both of which are ideas that no longer really apply.
  - bigbuppo 2mo ago
    And then you have Jeff Vogel, who has spent roughly 2/3 of his career literally remaking the games he first released 30 years ago. And I've literally bought them all.
    - meheleventyone 1mo ago

Kiln6125 2mo ago

Well, at least for Peter Molyneux he seems to be giving it one last shot at making something overly ambitious: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3165650/Masters_of_Albion/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/3165650/Masters_of_Albion...

epolanski 2mo ago

Today's development is either pay huge money for blockbusters, or go budget and make "lovely" games as indie developers. Hard to get the mid ground, they rarely recoup the costs.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

vinkelhake 2mo ago

I don't think Molyneux's issue ever was due to industry pressure. The guy made some great games back in the day, but as long as he has been in the spotlight he has been known for overpromising and underdelivering. Don't get me wrong, a game like Fable was pretty good, but it was nowhere near what he was effectively selling back when it was known as Project Ego. That Molyneux chose to make a mindless clicker as his first game with 22cans really can't be blamed on anything or anyone other than Peter himself.