6 ms·

I visited Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and was shown a gun collection owned by a previous member of the army. I was shown a pistol collection, then rifles, the

by ollysb 14y ago

I visited Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and was shown a gun collection owned by a previous member of the army. I was shown a pistol collection, then rifles, then semi-automatics. Really a quite staggering amount of hardware. When I asked what license was required to own this type of equipment he replied none. Without making a judgement on whether or not civilians should be allowed to own this type of equipment in the first place, should it not be an absolute minimum that people first obtain a licence to purchase guns. We don't allow people on the roads without a licence and they're not even designed to kill. A simple first step would seem to be requiring basic equipment/awareness training and a licensing process.

bdunbar 14y ago
> We don't allow people on the roads without a licence I'm not convinced by this argument. Firearms are not used in public spaces, but in private land, or on club-owned property.
- justincormack 14y ago
  Firearms are never used in public? Ever?
  - hga 14y ago
    Both Clayton Cramer and the US Government Accountability Office ("Investigative arm of Congress charged with examining matters relating to the receipt and payment of public funds.") this summer estimated there are outstanding around 8 million licenses to carry concealed. I can't speak for others, but I can say that almost every time I walk outside I've carrying a M1911 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol).
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - bdunbar 14y ago
    The only occasion I can think of where a private citizen would use a firearm in a public area is a city-owned gun range, or hunting on public land.
- Zimahl 14y ago
  Actually, most hunting is done on public land - typically state or federal. There are private game ranches, but those aren't the standard.
  - bdunbar 14y ago
    Point! I was thinking 'shooting range', not hunting. Which is silly - where I live half the office is gone during deer season.
- Maxious 14y ago
  > NEWTOWN, Connecticut: People in the rural, hilly areas around Newtown are used to gunfire. [...] > But in the last couple of years, residents began noticing loud, repeated gunfire, and even explosions [from propane gas tanks used as targets], coming from new places. Near a trailer park. By a boat launch. Next to well-appointed houses. > [...] ''We're growing,'' [Council Ordinance Committee Chairwoman, Mary Ann Jacob] said on Saturday, describing a town where hikers and mountain bikers competed with gun owners for use of trails and forested areas. http://www.smh.com.au/world/guns-are-why-were-free-8230-people-lose-sight-of-that-20121217-2bjdd.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/guns-are-why-were-free-8230-peop...
  - bdunbar 14y ago
    Your point - do you have one?
pc86 14y ago
Something gun control advocates seem to forget is that gun ownership is a Constitutional right for Americans. You cannot compare it to driving a car, or buying a television, or buying something from Amazon. If you're going to compare to something else for the purposes of limiting and regulating it, you need to compare to voting, assembling, practicing your faith or some other Constitutional right. When you are required to get a license to cast your ballot or attend your church, then you can make the argument for getting a license to purchase a firearm.
- tthomas48 14y ago
  Remember it's an amendment. Which means it can be repealed. We also at one point had an amendment outlawing all liquor and then another that repealed it. The inverse could be done easily with the 2nd. I'd imagine it's something that won't be out of the question in about 20-40 years. Gun owners are overwhelmingly white, male and older. A demographic that is dying of old age.
  - wonderzombie 14y ago
    Remember it's an amendment. Which means it can be repealed. We also at one point had an amendment outlawing all liquor and then another that repealed it. The inverse could be done easily with the 2nd. This is something that often goes without mentioning, so thanks for bringing it up. The founders were not idiots. They did not want to create a set of stone tablets, a collection of unchangeable holy texts. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were intended to be changeable, living documents, adaptable to the times. Maybe it's time to question whether or not the status quo can scale and remains consistent with our societal values.
  - joshuahedlund 14y ago
    This is a trend I would expect too, but the data does not appear to support it. Gun control has actually become consistently less popular over the last two decades[1]. I actually don't have a clue why, as it seems to counter other various demographic/political trends. [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/gun-control-polls.gif http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07...
hga 14y ago
Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right ... and you're not comparing the same things. Generally, you don't need to have a drivers license to own a vehicle, that is, have your name is on the title. You do need one to drive, and strangely enough, of the 42 states with de jure and de facto shall issue concealed carry regimes, all but 3 require a license. Although Arizona is a recent example of dropping that as a requirement, along with Alaska, and Vermont since the founding (the only state not to enact gun control to restrict those pesky freedmen or immigrants).

by ollysb 14y ago

bdunbar 14y ago

> We don't allow people on the roads without a licence I'm not convinced by this argument. Firearms are not used in public spaces, but in private land, or on club-owned property.

justincormack 14y ago
Firearms are never used in public? Ever?
- hga 14y ago
  Both Clayton Cramer and the US Government Accountability Office ("Investigative arm of Congress charged with examining matters relating to the receipt and payment of public funds.") this summer estimated there are outstanding around 8 million licenses to carry concealed. I can't speak for others, but I can say that almost every time I walk outside I've carrying a M1911 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol).
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- bdunbar 14y ago
  The only occasion I can think of where a private citizen would use a firearm in a public area is a city-owned gun range, or hunting on public land.
Zimahl 14y ago
Actually, most hunting is done on public land - typically state or federal. There are private game ranches, but those aren't the standard.
- bdunbar 14y ago
  Point! I was thinking 'shooting range', not hunting. Which is silly - where I live half the office is gone during deer season.
Maxious 14y ago
> NEWTOWN, Connecticut: People in the rural, hilly areas around Newtown are used to gunfire. [...] > But in the last couple of years, residents began noticing loud, repeated gunfire, and even explosions [from propane gas tanks used as targets], coming from new places. Near a trailer park. By a boat launch. Next to well-appointed houses. > [...] ''We're growing,'' [Council Ordinance Committee Chairwoman, Mary Ann Jacob] said on Saturday, describing a town where hikers and mountain bikers competed with gun owners for use of trails and forested areas. http://www.smh.com.au/world/guns-are-why-were-free-8230-people-lose-sight-of-that-20121217-2bjdd.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/guns-are-why-were-free-8230-peop...
- bdunbar 14y ago
  Your point - do you have one?

pc86 14y ago

Something gun control advocates seem to forget is that gun ownership is a Constitutional right for Americans. You cannot compare it to driving a car, or buying a television, or buying something from Amazon. If you're going to compare to something else for the purposes of limiting and regulating it, you need to compare to voting, assembling, practicing your faith or some other Constitutional right. When you are required to get a license to cast your ballot or attend your church, then you can make the argument for getting a license to purchase a firearm.

tthomas48 14y ago
Remember it's an amendment. Which means it can be repealed. We also at one point had an amendment outlawing all liquor and then another that repealed it. The inverse could be done easily with the 2nd. I'd imagine it's something that won't be out of the question in about 20-40 years. Gun owners are overwhelmingly white, male and older. A demographic that is dying of old age.
- wonderzombie 14y ago
  Remember it's an amendment. Which means it can be repealed. We also at one point had an amendment outlawing all liquor and then another that repealed it. The inverse could be done easily with the 2nd. This is something that often goes without mentioning, so thanks for bringing it up. The founders were not idiots. They did not want to create a set of stone tablets, a collection of unchangeable holy texts. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were intended to be changeable, living documents, adaptable to the times. Maybe it's time to question whether or not the status quo can scale and remains consistent with our societal values.
- joshuahedlund 14y ago
  This is a trend I would expect too, but the data does not appear to support it. Gun control has actually become consistently less popular over the last two decades[1]. I actually don't have a clue why, as it seems to counter other various demographic/political trends. [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/gun-control-polls.gif http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07...

hga 14y ago

Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right ... and you're not comparing the same things. Generally, you don't need to have a drivers license to own a vehicle, that is, have your name is on the title. You do need one to drive, and strangely enough, of the 42 states with de jure and de facto shall issue concealed carry regimes, all but 3 require a license. Although Arizona is a recent example of dropping that as a requirement, along with Alaska, and Vermont since the founding (the only state not to enact gun control to restrict those pesky freedmen or immigrants).