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So this is not what he said [1]? What did he say, then. I’m assuming you must know. [1]: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ben-gvir-calls-killing-30-044223107.html htt

by x3ro 2mo ago

So this is not what he said [1]? What did he say, then. I’m assuming you must know. [1]: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ben-gvir-calls-killing-30-044223107.html https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ben-gvir-calls-killing-30-04422310...

yoavm 2mo ago
I'm assuming you're asking genuinely so I will answer. For context, I'm originally Israeli, but I only heard about this from this HN thread. He was apparently on a podcast with a released hostage from Gaza. He was discussing targeted assassinations. One doesn't "target" an innocent person. He indeed said that we should target not only those that are an "immediate threat". I'm guessing he meant people who took part in October 7th's attack but are not currently fighting, for example prisoners of the hostage he was talking with. Many in Israel thinks the US forced Israel to stops many of its operations in Gaza, and he was basically saying he thinks some operations should continue. To clarify, I disagree with him, I'm glad IDF operations in Gaza largely stopped and I wish they stopped completely. I wish the best for ordinary citizens of Gaza and I am longing for the day Ben Gvir will be behind bars. But he did not say we should randomly kill 30-40 Palestinians per day. There is an armed conflict, and many people on both sides would unfortunately love to see tens of deaths on the other side per day, especially armed people.
- skrebbel 2mo ago
  Fwiw I appreciate this context. My national news site (usually pretty trustworthy, and scary neutral wrt the Israel/Palestine situation, which I know because they’re constantly under fire from both sides) pulled this out of context in exactly the same way.
  - yoavm 2mo ago
    Thanks for writing, it's nice to be reminded that some people actually read the comments here. I think the signal you pointed out is a very important one and I use the same one. Back when I was living in Israel I took part in organizing the shared memorial day event for Israelis and Palestinians. Both sides thought we were crazy, and therefore I concluded we must be doing something right.
- Planktonne 2mo ago
  > He was discussing targeted assassinations. One doesn't "target" an innocent person. Quite apart from anything else, I don't think these statements hang together, and we wouldn't accept them in any other context. Being targeted is not the same as being guilty.
  - yoavm 2mo ago
    I'm sorry but I can you elaborate? What exactly isn't hanging together? I'm assuming you don't mean that in other contexts is is okay to target an innocent person, but I'm not sure what you do mean. Being targeted is indeed not the same as being guilty. One is being used in the context of war, and the other is used in the Justice system.
    - x3ro 2mo ago
      My god how many „Israeli snipers are shooting children in the head“ statements from non-profits and doctors do we need before people finally stop peddling this „only evil hamas members are targeted“.. Just look at satellite pictures of Gaza man. Every palestinian is a target, which is why we are calling it genocide.
      - yoavm 2mo ago
        I do not disagree with any of the things you said, hence I'm not sure what you're rambling about.
        x3ro 2mo ago
        My point is that the Israeli government has been claiming, in every way imaginable, that their actions are „targeted“, when the evidence clearly shows that they are not. So when someone like Gvir says „targeted assassinations“, what he means (based on previous evidence) is „let’s kill some Palestinians“. What people say needs to be put in context of how they have behaved in the past.
        2mo ago
- plxio32 2mo ago
  > One doesn't "target" an innocent person. He indeed said that we should target not only those that are an "immediate threat". I'm guessing he meant people who took part in October 7th's attack but are not currently fighting. That's a lot of leeway for Ben Gvir, a guy that clearly doesn't mind killing innocent civilians. For years he proudly hung the portrait of the israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein in his living room, the terrorist who in 1994 entered a mosque and killed 29 Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 more.
  - yoavm 2mo ago
    I was aiming to translate what he said, not to guess we he deeply believes. The OP suggested he was saying this on television, hinting that this would be some kind of acceptable opinion in Israel. Ben Gvir's history, while I too believe still plays a big role in his ideas, is something that at least publicly he had to apologize for in order to get into the position he's at.
    - rideontime 2mo ago
      We don't need to "guess." When somebody shows you who he is, believe him.
      - yoavm 2mo ago
        Oh I sure do believe him. I just don't think it means one should be able to make up things regarding what he said on television. As an aside: it's really sad to see how hard it is for people to comprehand complexities. One can be all for Palestinian state, against the war, think of Ben Gvir and Hamas as a similar evil, dedicate decades to mutual work towards peace between Israelis and Palestinians, and yet get some random internet dude saying things like "why are you defending him are you racist too!?!?!?!?" when all you're trying to do is to hold on to the simple facts in this conflict.
        munksbeer 2mo ago
        For what it is worth, I agree with you. So there is at least one other person out there who would like statements to remain factual. When the entire topic is already so emotionally charged, it seems even more important to attempt to just stick to being factual.
- danmaz74 2mo ago
  30-40 per day means between 10,000 and 15,000 Palestinians killed per year. Just think about that number for a minute. I think that you're giving Ben Gvir way too much benefit of the doubt here.
  - yoavm 2mo ago
    And a 1,277,500 in ten years! Except no where did he say that this is the plan until the end of days, or until the end of the year. He said what he think Israel should do now. Again, to clarify, I do not support him nor wish for any of his plans to become real, and I'm deeply said and ashmed of every plan of his that did become real. What I was commenting on what about what he said, though, which is already a deviation from the original post in discussion. If we're going to start talking about Ben Gvir in general, for all the I care he should be sitting in jail, already since the 90s.
    - danmaz74 2mo ago
      How long has this war been going on? A year is a totally realistic time frame if you evaluate his words.
      - yoavm 2mo ago
        I'm sorry, but what does the current length of the war has to do with this? During an armed conflict one can be asked what they think needs to be done, and it doesn't mean that this is what they think needs to be done even one week from now. And again, even if he thinks so, it is clearly not what he said. If we're trying to guess what Ben Gvir really wants, I can only agree he probably wants terrible things. If we're talking about what is said on Israeli TV, then that's simply not what was said and I'd like to believe that it's not something the general public would accept.

by x3ro 2mo ago

yoavm 2mo ago

I'm assuming you're asking genuinely so I will answer. For context, I'm originally Israeli, but I only heard about this from this HN thread. He was apparently on a podcast with a released hostage from Gaza. He was discussing targeted assassinations. One doesn't "target" an innocent person. He indeed said that we should target not only those that are an "immediate threat". I'm guessing he meant people who took part in October 7th's attack but are not currently fighting, for example prisoners of the hostage he was talking with. Many in Israel thinks the US forced Israel to stops many of its operations in Gaza, and he was basically saying he thinks some operations should continue. To clarify, I disagree with him, I'm glad IDF operations in Gaza largely stopped and I wish they stopped completely. I wish the best for ordinary citizens of Gaza and I am longing for the day Ben Gvir will be behind bars. But he did not say we should randomly kill 30-40 Palestinians per day. There is an armed conflict, and many people on both sides would unfortunately love to see tens of deaths on the other side per day, especially armed people.

skrebbel 2mo ago
Fwiw I appreciate this context. My national news site (usually pretty trustworthy, and scary neutral wrt the Israel/Palestine situation, which I know because they’re constantly under fire from both sides) pulled this out of context in exactly the same way.
- yoavm 2mo ago
  Thanks for writing, it's nice to be reminded that some people actually read the comments here. I think the signal you pointed out is a very important one and I use the same one. Back when I was living in Israel I took part in organizing the shared memorial day event for Israelis and Palestinians. Both sides thought we were crazy, and therefore I concluded we must be doing something right.
Planktonne 2mo ago
> He was discussing targeted assassinations. One doesn't "target" an innocent person. Quite apart from anything else, I don't think these statements hang together, and we wouldn't accept them in any other context. Being targeted is not the same as being guilty.
- yoavm 2mo ago
  I'm sorry but I can you elaborate? What exactly isn't hanging together? I'm assuming you don't mean that in other contexts is is okay to target an innocent person, but I'm not sure what you do mean. Being targeted is indeed not the same as being guilty. One is being used in the context of war, and the other is used in the Justice system.
  - x3ro 2mo ago
    My god how many „Israeli snipers are shooting children in the head“ statements from non-profits and doctors do we need before people finally stop peddling this „only evil hamas members are targeted“.. Just look at satellite pictures of Gaza man. Every palestinian is a target, which is why we are calling it genocide.
    - yoavm 2mo ago
      I do not disagree with any of the things you said, hence I'm not sure what you're rambling about.
      - x3ro 2mo ago
        My point is that the Israeli government has been claiming, in every way imaginable, that their actions are „targeted“, when the evidence clearly shows that they are not. So when someone like Gvir says „targeted assassinations“, what he means (based on previous evidence) is „let’s kill some Palestinians“. What people say needs to be put in context of how they have behaved in the past.
        2mo ago
plxio32 2mo ago
> One doesn't "target" an innocent person. He indeed said that we should target not only those that are an "immediate threat". I'm guessing he meant people who took part in October 7th's attack but are not currently fighting. That's a lot of leeway for Ben Gvir, a guy that clearly doesn't mind killing innocent civilians. For years he proudly hung the portrait of the israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein in his living room, the terrorist who in 1994 entered a mosque and killed 29 Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 more.
- yoavm 2mo ago
  I was aiming to translate what he said, not to guess we he deeply believes. The OP suggested he was saying this on television, hinting that this would be some kind of acceptable opinion in Israel. Ben Gvir's history, while I too believe still plays a big role in his ideas, is something that at least publicly he had to apologize for in order to get into the position he's at.
  - rideontime 2mo ago
    We don't need to "guess." When somebody shows you who he is, believe him.
    - yoavm 2mo ago
      Oh I sure do believe him. I just don't think it means one should be able to make up things regarding what he said on television. As an aside: it's really sad to see how hard it is for people to comprehand complexities. One can be all for Palestinian state, against the war, think of Ben Gvir and Hamas as a similar evil, dedicate decades to mutual work towards peace between Israelis and Palestinians, and yet get some random internet dude saying things like "why are you defending him are you racist too!?!?!?!?" when all you're trying to do is to hold on to the simple facts in this conflict.
      - munksbeer 2mo ago
        For what it is worth, I agree with you. So there is at least one other person out there who would like statements to remain factual. When the entire topic is already so emotionally charged, it seems even more important to attempt to just stick to being factual.
danmaz74 2mo ago
30-40 per day means between 10,000 and 15,000 Palestinians killed per year. Just think about that number for a minute. I think that you're giving Ben Gvir way too much benefit of the doubt here.
- yoavm 2mo ago
  And a 1,277,500 in ten years! Except no where did he say that this is the plan until the end of days, or until the end of the year. He said what he think Israel should do now. Again, to clarify, I do not support him nor wish for any of his plans to become real, and I'm deeply said and ashmed of every plan of his that did become real. What I was commenting on what about what he said, though, which is already a deviation from the original post in discussion. If we're going to start talking about Ben Gvir in general, for all the I care he should be sitting in jail, already since the 90s.
  - danmaz74 2mo ago
    How long has this war been going on? A year is a totally realistic time frame if you evaluate his words.
    - yoavm 2mo ago
      I'm sorry, but what does the current length of the war has to do with this? During an armed conflict one can be asked what they think needs to be done, and it doesn't mean that this is what they think needs to be done even one week from now. And again, even if he thinks so, it is clearly not what he said. If we're trying to guess what Ben Gvir really wants, I can only agree he probably wants terrible things. If we're talking about what is said on Israeli TV, then that's simply not what was said and I'd like to believe that it's not something the general public would accept.