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They view certain components of "The West" as their enemy - indeed, the very organizations which conduct the same operations against the Russian people.

by aa-jv 2mo ago

rbanffy 2mo ago
There are no enemies - they are competing parts - competing for popularity, resources, power. This makes it possible to negotiate. Enemies don't, but competitors are a lot more pragmatic.
- MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
  Anglo-/Western and Russian governments have been strategic rivals for more than two centuries. Britain repeatedly sought to limit Russian expansion that threatened its own interests, such as routes to India, access to Caspian oil resources, etc. See also, the Great Game and the Eastern Question. They’re enemies because they want each others stuff. Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘manage’.
  - rbanffy 2mo ago
    > Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘manage’. And vice-versa, which results in the polite games being played, where everyone knows everyone else is doing shitty stuff to everyone, but nobody will ever admit it because that might cause the shitty stuff to descend into a shooting war, which is something we try to avoid as much as we can.
    - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
      Not any more we don’t. We’re actively attempting to start war with Russia and it is happening.
    - Paradigma11 2mo ago
      From approx 2008 on Russia has conducted operations that are in no way ideological but have only the goal to destabilize western nations. Supporting extremist parties of all orientations, magnifying events in their propaganda to maximize discord without any ideological consistency. They also quite frequently kill people on western soil. Sometimes using radioactive and chemical weapons. Please elaborate when the west has done the same in Russia.
      - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
        Just stop. The moral altitude you claim is a dire fallacy. You don’t speak Russian, or else you would already know the answer. And I’m pretty sure you know full well that any examples given to answer your question in earnest will simply be dismissed as “Russian propaganda” - just as the Russians dismiss Western claims as propaganda, or even ‘justifiable, given Western hostilities’ - but there is a long list of actions against Russia by western powers with the intention of destabilizing Russian society, which, if you make the effort to inform yourself by reaching outside your bubble, you can see for yourself. Russians can make just as many claims as Westerners can, and the only difference is which side one is invested in: thats what you’ll believe. No matter what. But, just to give you some hints as to what ‘the other side’ consider a valid response to your query, I asked some actual Russians what they would respond, and here’s the list: - Assassinations: Daria Dugina, Igor Kirilov, Mikail Shatsky, (and BTW, Russians can quite confidently claim that the Salisbury Novichok incident was a false flag intended to harm Russian standing in the world - “Russians aren’t the only ones who synthesized Novichok…”) - Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty: 100% anti-Russian propaganda, - The blatant censorship of RT in Western markets (although the Russians still have access to BBC and CNN, which they also view as state-sponsored anti-Russian propaganda organs), - Emphasis on high military casualties (sometimes highlighting disproportionate impact on ethnic minorities from poorer regions), - Coverage of economic costs, elite corruption, and contrasts between official narratives and frontline realities, - Support for (or amplification of) Russian opposition voices in exile and independent media, - The "UMBRAGE" Component of Vault 7, described by Wikileaks as an offensive Western intelligence/propaganda operation against Russia, These operations are reciprocal. Both sides do it to each other, and you are foolish to deny it. Otherwise .. I hope you learn to speak Russian and will start paying better attention to ‘the other side’, because that’s the only way you’ll get an answer to your question, legitimately. And even then, I doubt you’ll “believe it”, since we in the West live in a very, very tightly controlled propaganda bubble, to the tune of billions of dollars a year, which absolutely prevents any such sympathies for Russia from being expressed. Our bubble is just like the Russian bubble, only its not in Russian.

They view certain components of "The West" as their enemy - indeed, the very organizations which conduct the same operations against the Russian people.

by aa-jv 2mo ago

They view certain components of "The West" as their enemy - indeed, the very organizations which conduct the same operations against the Russian people.

rbanffy 2mo ago

There are no enemies - they are competing parts - competing for popularity, resources, power. This makes it possible to negotiate. Enemies don't, but competitors are a lot more pragmatic.

MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
Anglo-/Western and Russian governments have been strategic rivals for more than two centuries. Britain repeatedly sought to limit Russian expansion that threatened its own interests, such as routes to India, access to Caspian oil resources, etc. See also, the Great Game and the Eastern Question. They’re enemies because they want each others stuff. Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘manage’.
- rbanffy 2mo ago
  > Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘manage’. And vice-versa, which results in the polite games being played, where everyone knows everyone else is doing shitty stuff to everyone, but nobody will ever admit it because that might cause the shitty stuff to descend into a shooting war, which is something we try to avoid as much as we can.
  - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
    Not any more we don’t. We’re actively attempting to start war with Russia and it is happening.
  - Paradigma11 2mo ago
    From approx 2008 on Russia has conducted operations that are in no way ideological but have only the goal to destabilize western nations. Supporting extremist parties of all orientations, magnifying events in their propaganda to maximize discord without any ideological consistency. They also quite frequently kill people on western soil. Sometimes using radioactive and chemical weapons. Please elaborate when the west has done the same in Russia.
    - MomsAVoxell 2mo ago
      Just stop. The moral altitude you claim is a dire fallacy. You don’t speak Russian, or else you would already know the answer. And I’m pretty sure you know full well that any examples given to answer your question in earnest will simply be dismissed as “Russian propaganda” - just as the Russians dismiss Western claims as propaganda, or even ‘justifiable, given Western hostilities’ - but there is a long list of actions against Russia by western powers with the intention of destabilizing Russian society, which, if you make the effort to inform yourself by reaching outside your bubble, you can see for yourself. Russians can make just as many claims as Westerners can, and the only difference is which side one is invested in: thats what you’ll believe. No matter what. But, just to give you some hints as to what ‘the other side’ consider a valid response to your query, I asked some actual Russians what they would respond, and here’s the list: - Assassinations: Daria Dugina, Igor Kirilov, Mikail Shatsky, (and BTW, Russians can quite confidently claim that the Salisbury Novichok incident was a false flag intended to harm Russian standing in the world - “Russians aren’t the only ones who synthesized Novichok…”) - Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty: 100% anti-Russian propaganda, - The blatant censorship of RT in Western markets (although the Russians still have access to BBC and CNN, which they also view as state-sponsored anti-Russian propaganda organs), - Emphasis on high military casualties (sometimes highlighting disproportionate impact on ethnic minorities from poorer regions), - Coverage of economic costs, elite corruption, and contrasts between official narratives and frontline realities, - Support for (or amplification of) Russian opposition voices in exile and independent media, - The "UMBRAGE" Component of Vault 7, described by Wikileaks as an offensive Western intelligence/propaganda operation against Russia, These operations are reciprocal. Both sides do it to each other, and you are foolish to deny it. Otherwise .. I hope you learn to speak Russian and will start paying better attention to ‘the other side’, because that’s the only way you’ll get an answer to your question, legitimately. And even then, I doubt you’ll “believe it”, since we in the West live in a very, very tightly controlled propaganda bubble, to the tune of billions of dollars a year, which absolutely prevents any such sympathies for Russia from being expressed. Our bubble is just like the Russian bubble, only its not in Russian.