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> we realized it was time to return to our own country The problem is that it was someone else's country. "Returning" after 2000 years and telling the people

> we realized it was time to return to our own country The problem is that it was someone else's country. "Returning" after 2000 years and telling the people who have lived there for centuries that you rightfully own the place is insane. No one anywhere on earth would accept that.

judah 2mo ago
Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for 3,500 years. Many more returned home after the Holocaust and rebuilt cities, created new ones like Tel Aviv, turned sand into productive land.
- DiogenesKynikos 2mo ago
  By "continuous presence," you mean that a tiny number of Jews lived there. The vast majority of Jews lived elsewhere, and the vast majority of the local population was not Jewish. I'm sorry, but 5% of the population of Palestine being Jewish does not give one the right to take over the country, not to mention the fact that the longstanding Jewish population of Palestine was hostile to Zionism. It was a European political movement.
  - judah 2mo ago
    If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does? The ability to create and defend borders. Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies[0], Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors. Israel has a right to exist because its people have had a continuous presence in that land going back longer than the British have been in London, longer than the French have been in Paris. Israel has a right to exist because it defends its people and its borders and has the approval of the United Nations, UN Resolution 181. The only people who deny this right of Jews to return to their native homeland? Bonafide neo-Nazis, Islamic fundamentalists, KKK members, and other antisemites. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
    - DiogenesKynikos 2mo ago
      > If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does? You're playing a deliberate sleight of hand here. A tiny number of Jews lived as a small minority in Palestine, therefore Jews were always there, therefore European Jews have the right to turn Palestine into a Jewish state. The "continuous presence" was tiny, and had nothing to do with the millions of Jews who lived in Europe - the people who later founded Israel. > Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies, Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors. The Zionist paramilitary groups had already been waging war against the Palestinians for 6 months by the time the Arab armies intervened. The Zionists had already driven hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes and conquered much of Palestine. But Israelis like to present this as little old us being attacked by the big mean Arab armies. > The only people who deny this right of Jews to return to their native homeland? Bonafide neo-Nazis, Islamic fundamentalists, KKK members, and other antisemites. You forgot to mention Jewish people. The large majority of Jews were antizionist before WWII, and opposition to Zionism has always been a prominent position among Jews. And inversely, many of the strongest proponents of Zionism have always been antisemites (for example, right-wing Christians in the US today). Imagine if in the year 3600 AD, an African American political movement were to start saying that Africa is their true homeland and that they have the right to take over Ghana and to turn it into their own state. It would be absurd, and the Ghanaians would fight it tooth and nail. Yet here you are saying that Palestine was the true homeland of Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud, and that European Jews had a 2000-year-old right to take over Palestine, regardless of what the people who lived there had to think about it.
      - throw4986327 2mo ago
        Albert Einstein legally traveled to British Mandate Palestine in 1923 to help set up the Hebrew University - on land that was legally purchased. While some Arabs (and Jews) were displaced during the War of independence, most of Israel’s cities are built on land that was legally purchased, and the vast majority of Israelis immigrated legally. Making it sound like all of the land was stolen because some Jews immigrated from Europe is like saying that Muslim migrants are stealing European land.
  - throw4986327 2mo ago
    In the 1922 British census of Jerusalem, Jews were a majority of the population.
- colordrops 2mo ago
  You are either extremely ignorant or a cynical sociopath only out to serve your own interests. You spout old stereotypical hasbara that no one falls for anymore because the genocide has led everyone to be educated on the history of the region.
  - judah 2mo ago
    History. Jews have lived in Israel for 3,500 years. They were forced out numerous times by numerous conquerors -- including the Islamic conquest of the 8th century -- but each time, Jews returned. And there is no genocide taking place, just a war Hamas started and lost. The Gazan population has already rebounded since Hamas started the war in 2023. For comparison with a real genocide, the global Jewish population today has still not rebounded to pre-1939 levels[0]. [0]: https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/jewish-population-before-and-after-holocaust-e4077d https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/jewish-population-b...
    - colordrops 2mo ago
      You're at least 3 years behind on the hasbara propaganda. Please check in with the local chapter, there are much more effective narratives now.
      - judah 2mo ago
        > "you're behind on your propaganda" Genuine dialog requires a willingness to engage with others' arguments, assess evidence and offer counterpoints. That you dismiss the well-documented history and anthropology of the Jewish people as mere propaganda explains your worldview quite well.
        colordrops 2mo ago
        I don't engage with bad faith propagandists. There's no debate to be had. You have an unshakable agenda.

judah 2mo ago

Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for 3,500 years. Many more returned home after the Holocaust and rebuilt cities, created new ones like Tel Aviv, turned sand into productive land.

DiogenesKynikos 2mo ago
By "continuous presence," you mean that a tiny number of Jews lived there. The vast majority of Jews lived elsewhere, and the vast majority of the local population was not Jewish. I'm sorry, but 5% of the population of Palestine being Jewish does not give one the right to take over the country, not to mention the fact that the longstanding Jewish population of Palestine was hostile to Zionism. It was a European political movement.
- judah 2mo ago
  If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does? The ability to create and defend borders. Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies[0], Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors. Israel has a right to exist because its people have had a continuous presence in that land going back longer than the British have been in London, longer than the French have been in Paris. Israel has a right to exist because it defends its people and its borders and has the approval of the United Nations, UN Resolution 181. The only people who deny this right of Jews to return to their native homeland? Bonafide neo-Nazis, Islamic fundamentalists, KKK members, and other antisemites. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
  - DiogenesKynikos 2mo ago
    > If continuous presence in a land doesn't define a people's right to exist as a nation, you know what does? You're playing a deliberate sleight of hand here. A tiny number of Jews lived as a small minority in Palestine, therefore Jews were always there, therefore European Jews have the right to turn Palestine into a Jewish state. The "continuous presence" was tiny, and had nothing to do with the millions of Jews who lived in Europe - the people who later founded Israel. > Israel has that. Israel was invaded on the day it declared independence on May 14th, 1948. Invaded by 9 Arab nations and armies, Israel not only successfully defended itself and won the war, it even gained territory from the aggressors. The Zionist paramilitary groups had already been waging war against the Palestinians for 6 months by the time the Arab armies intervened. The Zionists had already driven hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes and conquered much of Palestine. But Israelis like to present this as little old us being attacked by the big mean Arab armies. > The only people who deny this right of Jews to return to their native homeland? Bonafide neo-Nazis, Islamic fundamentalists, KKK members, and other antisemites. You forgot to mention Jewish people. The large majority of Jews were antizionist before WWII, and opposition to Zionism has always been a prominent position among Jews. And inversely, many of the strongest proponents of Zionism have always been antisemites (for example, right-wing Christians in the US today). Imagine if in the year 3600 AD, an African American political movement were to start saying that Africa is their true homeland and that they have the right to take over Ghana and to turn it into their own state. It would be absurd, and the Ghanaians would fight it tooth and nail. Yet here you are saying that Palestine was the true homeland of Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud, and that European Jews had a 2000-year-old right to take over Palestine, regardless of what the people who lived there had to think about it.
    - throw4986327 2mo ago
      Albert Einstein legally traveled to British Mandate Palestine in 1923 to help set up the Hebrew University - on land that was legally purchased. While some Arabs (and Jews) were displaced during the War of independence, most of Israel’s cities are built on land that was legally purchased, and the vast majority of Israelis immigrated legally. Making it sound like all of the land was stolen because some Jews immigrated from Europe is like saying that Muslim migrants are stealing European land.
- throw4986327 2mo ago
  In the 1922 British census of Jerusalem, Jews were a majority of the population.
colordrops 2mo ago
You are either extremely ignorant or a cynical sociopath only out to serve your own interests. You spout old stereotypical hasbara that no one falls for anymore because the genocide has led everyone to be educated on the history of the region.
- judah 2mo ago
  History. Jews have lived in Israel for 3,500 years. They were forced out numerous times by numerous conquerors -- including the Islamic conquest of the 8th century -- but each time, Jews returned. And there is no genocide taking place, just a war Hamas started and lost. The Gazan population has already rebounded since Hamas started the war in 2023. For comparison with a real genocide, the global Jewish population today has still not rebounded to pre-1939 levels[0]. [0]: https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/jewish-population-before-and-after-holocaust-e4077d https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/jewish-population-b...
  - colordrops 2mo ago
    You're at least 3 years behind on the hasbara propaganda. Please check in with the local chapter, there are much more effective narratives now.
    - judah 2mo ago
      > "you're behind on your propaganda" Genuine dialog requires a willingness to engage with others' arguments, assess evidence and offer counterpoints. That you dismiss the well-documented history and anthropology of the Jewish people as mere propaganda explains your worldview quite well.
      - colordrops 2mo ago
        I don't engage with bad faith propagandists. There's no debate to be had. You have an unshakable agenda.