5 ms·

Humble Beginnings

144 points by olivercameron 14y ago

EugeneOZ 14y ago
It's funny, thanks.
ececconi 14y ago
Sobering. It makes me realize that one of the internet movements which I appreciate the most, and also take the most for granted, is just how much more good design is stressed. Now if I find something which is ugly or non-intuitive, I really do take a step back and think about why things were shown to public like that. Sometimes people do point and say that most web 2.0 websites look similar and uninspired, but I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing.
- msrpotus 14y ago
  I think the point is just as much that you don't need the best design in the world to be successful. Just get started, even if it's not the most attractive.
  - jpdevereaux 14y ago
    But it seems this might not be the case anymore - if Twitter were launched like that today, would people even bother checking it out?
    - redidas 14y ago
      That's hard to speculate on. It might not have. But at the same time, I'd like to think that if a service is revolutionary/unique enough, it will gradually get some traction.
    - dorkrawk 14y ago
      Eh, if they launched today they could at least slap Bootstrap on top of it to clean it up a bit. :)
- csomar 14y ago
  Now if I find something which is ugly or non-intuitive, I really do take a step back and think about why things were shown to public like that. Indeed, the bar is raised. When confronted with multiple choices, I'll pick the nicely designed and engineered (that's a bit hard to assess from the beginning) The bar now is getting too high that start-ups are becoming expensive again.
- graue 14y ago
  Yeah, I'm glad we all have higher standards these days, even though it makes it harder for me as a non-designer. These days when I see something like Pinboard's front page it's kind of a shock. I couldn't possibly bring myself to pay for something so ugly.
arscan 14y ago
Another frontpage hn article today was asking for donations to the internet archive, which helps make sure those humble beginnings are forever remembered: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4931472 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4931472
stevenj 14y ago
I think good design is important. But it seems to me that the hardest thing is getting users to use your product or service (especially repeatedly). In a sense, it's more of a behavioral/psychological problem. Ideas are bad because they don't get users. The best design won't turn a bad idea into a good one. The thing I find most interesting about these examples is that all of them (I believe) had a dedicated user base -- as well as fast growing one -- in the beginning. People really wanted to use them from day one.
- zmitri 14y ago
  Totally on point about getting users to actually use it. That's kinda where I'm at right now with what I'm working on, and it's by far the hardest step. Twitter actually had very few users for the first 6 months I believe, but things like Facebook and Instagram were big hits pretty quickly.
  - benesch 14y ago
    Agree with you on Instagram, but Facebook had the benefit of one-at-time rollout to universities, which upped its exclusivity and draw. (Granted it was also good product.)
zoba 14y ago
He makes a point of all of these companies having been ugly at the outset. I don't disagree, they were, however the landscape has changed. In the past, when the world was really still figuring out what the web is, it was okay to be ugly -- because so much of the web actually was ugly. Now, however, there is a lot of beautiful design on the web and people are having higher and higher expectations. Its a lot about signaling, I think. People want to know that they aren't wasting their time. If a website is ugly and poorly designed, then its easy to think "Whoever made this didn't put a lot of effort into it, and may continue to not put effort into it." In the old days of the web, just being on the web was signal enough that you put a fair amount of effort into your project. Now, we have more sophisticated methods of signaling that our websites are better than others. However, its a bit like clothing and jewelry in that it can be superficial -- just because something is dressed up and pretty on the outside doesn't always mean theres something worthwhile underneath. Humorously, the Github repo title of my product contains the very words "Humble Beginnings". We're launching this week, right Justin? ;)
- jjb123 14y ago
  The landscape in total may have changed, but in my opinion, it seems the theme of success stories hasn't changed that much... Groupon had humble beginnings, chatroullette was completely lacking in design, and reddit is seeing it's heyday as we speak. Their perceived lack of design didn't seem to preclude them from incredible/almost unparalleled growth (and all were in the last two years).
- hayksaakian 14y ago
  And Craigslist marches on
  - adamnemecek 14y ago
    Because Craigslist is already established, I'm not sure if they'd be as successful if they launched today.
- djt 14y ago
  keep in mind the state of internet speed at the time back then too. Its easy to look nice when you dont have to worry about it taking 30 minutes to render a page on a 2400 baud modem. Also the tools are so much easier. I remember setting up wordpress about 6 years ago and compared to today it is so much easier to set up and also so much easier and cheaper to make it look nice too!
polyfractal 14y ago
I've always been struck by how little Amazon's design has changed: http://web.archive.org/web/19990828014913/http://www.amazon.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/19990828014913/http://www.amazon....?
TillE 14y ago
Early Facebook designs were nice. Maybe not the one displayed in the screenshot, but one or two iterations later with some tweaking, definitely. Design is what really set them apart from MySpace. That, and semi-private college communities.
frisco 14y ago
A reminder of how small the tech world is: notice the first name in the "Timeline" pane in the Twttr screenshot: "Kevin Systrom". This would have been about four years before Instagram (was Systrom still an undergrad at Stanford then, even?).
ErikAugust 14y ago
Take a look at the "Twttr" photo. Kevin Systrom (of Instagram fame) was babysitting.
calinet6 14y ago
Clearly, the YouTube home page screenshot there has mangled HTML and was not what the page originally looked like on period browsers. And the "dating fields" were probably just an ad that was misplaced by the same sort of rendering errors. Just sayin', it wasn't that bad.

144 points by olivercameron 14y ago

It's funny, thanks.

Sobering. It makes me realize that one of the internet movements which I appreciate the most, and also take the most for granted, is just how much more good design is stressed. Now if I find something which is ugly or non-intuitive, I really do take a step back and think about why things were shown to public like that. Sometimes people do point and say that most web 2.0 websites look similar and uninspired, but I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing.

msrpotus 14y ago
I think the point is just as much that you don't need the best design in the world to be successful. Just get started, even if it's not the most attractive.
- jpdevereaux 14y ago
  But it seems this might not be the case anymore - if Twitter were launched like that today, would people even bother checking it out?
  - redidas 14y ago
    That's hard to speculate on. It might not have. But at the same time, I'd like to think that if a service is revolutionary/unique enough, it will gradually get some traction.
  - dorkrawk 14y ago
    Eh, if they launched today they could at least slap Bootstrap on top of it to clean it up a bit. :)
csomar 14y ago
Now if I find something which is ugly or non-intuitive, I really do take a step back and think about why things were shown to public like that. Indeed, the bar is raised. When confronted with multiple choices, I'll pick the nicely designed and engineered (that's a bit hard to assess from the beginning) The bar now is getting too high that start-ups are becoming expensive again.
graue 14y ago
Yeah, I'm glad we all have higher standards these days, even though it makes it harder for me as a non-designer. These days when I see something like Pinboard's front page it's kind of a shock. I couldn't possibly bring myself to pay for something so ugly.

arscan 14y ago

Another frontpage hn article today was asking for donations to the internet archive, which helps make sure those humble beginnings are forever remembered: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4931472 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4931472

stevenj 14y ago

I think good design is important. But it seems to me that the hardest thing is getting users to use your product or service (especially repeatedly). In a sense, it's more of a behavioral/psychological problem. Ideas are bad because they don't get users. The best design won't turn a bad idea into a good one. The thing I find most interesting about these examples is that all of them (I believe) had a dedicated user base -- as well as fast growing one -- in the beginning. People really wanted to use them from day one.

zmitri 14y ago
Totally on point about getting users to actually use it. That's kinda where I'm at right now with what I'm working on, and it's by far the hardest step. Twitter actually had very few users for the first 6 months I believe, but things like Facebook and Instagram were big hits pretty quickly.
- benesch 14y ago
  Agree with you on Instagram, but Facebook had the benefit of one-at-time rollout to universities, which upped its exclusivity and draw. (Granted it was also good product.)

zoba 14y ago

He makes a point of all of these companies having been ugly at the outset. I don't disagree, they were, however the landscape has changed. In the past, when the world was really still figuring out what the web is, it was okay to be ugly -- because so much of the web actually was ugly. Now, however, there is a lot of beautiful design on the web and people are having higher and higher expectations. Its a lot about signaling, I think. People want to know that they aren't wasting their time. If a website is ugly and poorly designed, then its easy to think "Whoever made this didn't put a lot of effort into it, and may continue to not put effort into it." In the old days of the web, just being on the web was signal enough that you put a fair amount of effort into your project. Now, we have more sophisticated methods of signaling that our websites are better than others. However, its a bit like clothing and jewelry in that it can be superficial -- just because something is dressed up and pretty on the outside doesn't always mean theres something worthwhile underneath. Humorously, the Github repo title of my product contains the very words "Humble Beginnings". We're launching this week, right Justin? ;)

jjb123 14y ago
The landscape in total may have changed, but in my opinion, it seems the theme of success stories hasn't changed that much... Groupon had humble beginnings, chatroullette was completely lacking in design, and reddit is seeing it's heyday as we speak. Their perceived lack of design didn't seem to preclude them from incredible/almost unparalleled growth (and all were in the last two years).
hayksaakian 14y ago
And Craigslist marches on
- adamnemecek 14y ago
  Because Craigslist is already established, I'm not sure if they'd be as successful if they launched today.
djt 14y ago
keep in mind the state of internet speed at the time back then too. Its easy to look nice when you dont have to worry about it taking 30 minutes to render a page on a 2400 baud modem. Also the tools are so much easier. I remember setting up wordpress about 6 years ago and compared to today it is so much easier to set up and also so much easier and cheaper to make it look nice too!

polyfractal 14y ago

I've always been struck by how little Amazon's design has changed: http://web.archive.org/web/19990828014913/http://www.amazon.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/19990828014913/http://www.amazon....?

TillE 14y ago

Early Facebook designs were nice. Maybe not the one displayed in the screenshot, but one or two iterations later with some tweaking, definitely. Design is what really set them apart from MySpace. That, and semi-private college communities.

frisco 14y ago

A reminder of how small the tech world is: notice the first name in the "Timeline" pane in the Twttr screenshot: "Kevin Systrom". This would have been about four years before Instagram (was Systrom still an undergrad at Stanford then, even?).

ErikAugust 14y ago

Take a look at the "Twttr" photo. Kevin Systrom (of Instagram fame) was babysitting.

calinet6 14y ago

Clearly, the YouTube home page screenshot there has mangled HTML and was not what the page originally looked like on period browsers. And the "dating fields" were probably just an ad that was misplaced by the same sort of rendering errors. Just sayin', it wasn't that bad.